Traditional Design Fees?

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Traditional Design Fees?

Postby Anob » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:18 am

If the architect is only contractually responsible for architectural, mechanical, electrical, and structural services, what
are the traditional design fees in percentages? Jenny's notes includes civil engineering, which is an additional service.
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Re: Traditional Design Fees?

Postby fare75 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:32 pm

B101-2007 #3.1 Structural, Mechanical, Electrical <<<==Architect's Basic Service
B101-2007 #4.1 Civil Engineering is on the Additional Services list (not included in the design fee of Architect's Basic Service Contract)

Architect's design fee is calculated based on the % of Cost of the Work (project construction cost).
Check B101-2007 Article 6 for more specific definition, what items are included/excluded.

% depends on the market and how much do you want to earn :lol:
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Re: Traditional Design Fees?

Postby Coach » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:20 am

fare75 wrote:Architect's design fee is calculated based on the % of Cost of the Work (project construction cost).

Not always.
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Re: Traditional Design Fees?

Postby fare75 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:13 am

Coach wrote:
fare75 wrote:Architect's design fee is calculated based on the % of Cost of the Work (project construction cost).

Not always.

True.
Other Fee Method listed in AHPP:
Percentage of Construction Cost
Percentage of Approved Budget
Lump Sum
Hourly
Hourly with a Cap (or Limit or Maximum)
Dollars per Square Foot or per Unit
Prototypes and Reuse Fees
Performance Bonus or Success Fees
Composite


the keyword "Tranditional" ... I assume it's Percentage of Construction Cost
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Re: Traditional Design Fees?

Postby Coach » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:52 am

fare75 wrote:the keyword "Tranditional" ... I assume it's Percentage of Construction Cost

To some it may be traditional. It's a stupid way to go and any talk of standard percentages will only get you into trouble.
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Re: Traditional Design Fees?

Postby Anob » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:12 am

Thanks for the response guys!

I definitely agree with you Coach, but the reason I'm asking is because I recently saw a question asking me to determine design fees including the traditional consultants
up to a certain design phase. The only way to determine this is by using percentages based on what the architect and his/her consultants would use. I also think this question
might have been a red herring.
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Re: Traditional Design Fees?

Postby fare75 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:03 am

Anob wrote:Thanks for the response guys!

I definitely agree with you Coach, but the reason I'm asking is because I recently saw a question asking me to determine design fees including the traditional consultants
up to a certain design phase. The only way to determine this is by using percentages based on what the architect and his/her consultants would use. I also think this question
might have been a red herring.

seems like I misunderstood your original question...
you are actually asking what to fill in the blanks,in B101-2007 #11.5 for example?

11_5.jpg
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Re: Traditional Design Fees?

Postby Anob » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:41 am

fare75

Yes if the contract is based on a "Stipulated Sum". Ok, lets just say the client says he/she has $1,000,000 for just design. At the end of design which
designer (Architect, Mechanical, Electrical, Structural) would consume the most of the money and how much did they consume based on the stipulated amount?

I can't seem to find a solution to this type of question. Jenny notes has a list of traditional design fees, but includes civil engineering which is not required by the architect
to provide based on B101. So if i removed civil engineering from the equation, that throws all the other percentages out of whack.
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Re: Traditional Design Fees?

Postby Coach » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:43 am

Anob wrote:fare75

Yes if the contract is based on a "Stipulated Sum". Ok, lets just say the client says he/she has $1,000,000 for just design. At the end of design which
designer (Architect, Mechanical, Electrical, Structural) would consume the most of the money and how much did they consume based on the stipulated amount?

I can't seem to find a solution to this type of question. Jenny notes has a list of traditional design fees, but includes civil engineering which is not required by the architect
to provide based on B101. So if i removed civil engineering from the equation, that throws all the other percentages out of whack.

Do you have a particular problem you're trying to solve? Because there are different scenarios you could be talking about.

If you're asking how much of an architect's fee can you expect to go to consultants, if civil is not included then just add that amount to architect's portion.
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Re: Traditional Design Fees?

Postby Anob » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:27 am

The question I'm trying to figure out was on the exam and so I'm trying not to divulge to much information. I'm try to figure out whats the
typical design fee percentage based on a stipulated sum. Is a question like this even legal ?

This is what I've heard from various sources:
Architect = 10-15%
Mechanical = 35-50%
Electrical = 20-30%
Structural = 10%

Jenny's Notes-Traditional design fees:
Architect = 10% of construction cost
Mechanical = 15%
Electrical = 12.5%
Civil = 10.5%
Structural = 9.4%
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Re: Traditional Design Fees?

Postby fabio2331 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:56 am

I've been looking for an answer in this matter as well and still confused. Assuming the construction cost and stipulated sum are established, are the consultants fees(%'s) would be from the construction cost(not much sense since it will wreck the project budget) or from the architect fees? Not sure about approximate percents for consultants due to conflicting information in different sources. Thanks
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Re: Traditional Design Fees?

Postby thd7t » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:18 am

Full architectural services include Structural and MEP design. Therefore, those fees are taken from the fees that the architect proposes. Design fees are not part of the construction cost unless they are delegated design duties.
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Re: Traditional Design Fees?

Postby LAVEE » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:55 am

In the AIA Architects Handbook for Professional Practice under Project Delivery Table 10.4 Shows a Top Down budget and has consultants fee be 40% of the architects fee. Hope this helps
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Re: Traditional Design Fees?

Postby KOOTA » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:13 pm

any more info on this % nonesense from NCARB would be appreciated
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