PPP FAIL (Vignette - not sure why or how!!)

Site Zoning Vignette and Multiple Choice

PPP FAIL (Vignette - not sure why or how!!)

Postby rbbarnh1 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:47 am

Took PPP last week and felt great on all the questions and the vignette. Passed ALL the question sections but failed the vignette! Even had time left over on the vignette. I have been wracking my brain on what i could have down wrong that was a critical fail. I have never failed a vignette before. usually its the questions that i fail. Any encouragement will definitely help.
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Re: PPP FAIL (Vignette - not sure why or how!!)

Postby seriously » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:14 am

Hi there,

I just got the same result today, passed MC but failed vignette at level 3. This was my second try and I actually passed vignette the first time. I am puzzled as well and could not think of anything that I could have done wrong. It was so straightforward. I am in California and I don't think they allow contesting the result, otherwise I probably would appeal and have them review the result.

The only thing I can think of is that maybe my surface improvement area and the building area are not perfectly aligned along the curve line? I honestly could not think of anything else. I spent almost half an hour checking and double checking everything. I just scheduled a new exam in September. Hopefully we can figure out what we did wrong before taking it again.

You are not alone. Hang in there and keep going!
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Re: PPP FAIL (Vignette - not sure why or how!!)

Postby rbbarnh1 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:20 am

How do I find out if I can contest the results? I am in Kentucky.
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Re: PPP FAIL (Vignette - not sure why or how!!)

Postby seriously » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:27 am

https://www.ncarb.org/pass-are/are4/sta ... your-score

at the bottom "review and challenge" section, you can check each state's requirements. It doesn't seem like kentucky allows it either but you can also do the score verification but I don't know what that would do. and it costs $100.
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Re: PPP FAIL (Vignette - not sure why or how!!)

Postby SeaJacket » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:46 am

Same here. I took PPP on 7/10 and failed the vignette, passed the rest, first time. I assume a Level 3 is a fatal error. Racking my brain on what that could have been, wondering if I closed out too early. I felt strongest about the vignette.

Thanks for the info on Challenging. Under California as well. Can't move to 5.0, need to wrap this up under 4.0.
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Re: PPP FAIL (Vignette - not sure why or how!!)

Postby rbbarnh1 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:18 pm

SeaJacket wrote:Can't move to 5.0, need to wrap this up under 4.0.


Yep. Same here. Can't contest Graphic Vignettes it says.

Ive gone back today and from memory did the vignette and can't find the error. It is nice to know im not alone guys. it does make me wonder however, why so many people are failing ( a guy at work also failed the same way) only the vignette on PPP when this exam is the crutch to transition to 5.0 to take less exams. just seems fishy. oh well.

3rd times the charm then for me. Good luck.
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Re: PPP FAIL (Vignette - not sure why or how!!)

Postby sbyrktct » Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:53 pm

I don't see your practice vignette solution posted for review...
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Re: PPP FAIL (Vignette - not sure why or how!!)

Postby rbbarnh1 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:03 pm

sbyrktct wrote:I don't see your practice vignette solution posted for review...


im not going to re-create the vignette on an open forum. The only two things i can think of are the angle of the max bldg envelope and if I started it at the benchmark, or if i put the correct part on the layers. Does anyone know if the layers are scored on this vignette? ie, building layer, secondary, etc.??
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Re: PPP FAIL (Vignette - not sure why or how!!)

Postby VTBassdrum13 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:47 am

It could have been an issue with your grade line since that is a critical feature. Unfortunately there's no way of knowing. At this point the only thing you can do is make sure you have all bases covered when going into the re-take. What sbyrktct is referring to is that you didn't post any of your practice vignettes to the forum for review prior to your exam. That is the only real way of knowing if you are misinterpreting something in the program. I definitely understand the frustration. I've failed PPP twice, once because of MC and the other Level 3 vignette and this is my last exam. Keep with it. It'll be over before you know it!
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Re: PPP FAIL (Vignette - not sure why or how!!)

Postby sbyrktct » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:34 am

rbbarnh1 wrote:
sbyrktct wrote:I don't see your practice vignette solution posted for review...


im not going to re-create the vignette on an open forum. The only two things i can think of are the angle of the max bldg envelope and if I started it at the benchmark, or if i put the correct part on the layers. Does anyone know if the layers are scored on this vignette? ie, building layer, secondary, etc.??


First, I wrote practice vignette...

Second, yes... layers count.
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Re: PPP FAIL (Vignette - not sure why or how!!)

Postby rbbarnh1 » Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:53 am

sbyrktct wrote:
rbbarnh1 wrote:
sbyrktct wrote:I don't see your practice vignette solution posted for review...


im not going to re-create the vignette on an open forum. The only two things i can think of are the angle of the max bldg envelope and if I started it at the benchmark, or if i put the correct part on the layers. Does anyone know if the layers are scored on this vignette? ie, building layer, secondary, etc.??


First, I wrote practice vignette...

Second, yes... layers count.


sorry sbyrktct... i will post some practice vignettes today / tonight. I re-take exam on sept 11. I have to pass this one or will have to wait a year to retake as this will be #3. The first time I failed PPP I passed the vignette and missed two sections... the second time I passed ALL the question sections and failed the Vignette..
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Re: PPP FAIL (Vignette - not sure why or how!!)

Postby Raja » Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:09 pm

I've done the NCARB 4.0 practice vignette 3x and the NALSA vignette alt 2x, in preparation for taking PPP on Tuesday. I thoroughly and carefully noted the program and restrictions, double-checked everything when I was done, with extra time remaining. After 2 practice vignette fails I started using Brudgers' method to make sure not to miss anything because you simply cannot miss anything.

But still, I keep missing something that leads to fatal error. Last round I realized I had used the benchmark number at the 30 degree bulk restriction, instead of benchmark + height above benchmark together, even though I knew it was supposed to be both added together. This meant my building outline was 5' too low and would be a fail. I checked my solution several times, reviewed all of my notes and math, as well as using ID the items to check all sizes. But still I missed this until later when I checked it against the answer.

The funny thing is, in real life when you submit to P&Z they are going to find all sorts of things they want you to change, errors or different interpretations or they changed their code since you submitted, or some neighbor just hates that your building is going up next to them, and so forth. So you have to make changes. If your drawing is 5' off either no one notices or cares-- if someone makes the catch you just change it and that's that. 20+ years of experience talking here, but what is that next to NCARB?

Anyhow I do think it's very, very easy to make some tiny error like this that makes you fail and not realize it, even if you had done it correctly every time in practice. But you may as well challenge the result if you think they messed up.

Good luck everyone.
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Re: PPP FAIL (Vignette - not sure why or how!!)

Postby seriously » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:07 pm

sbyrktct wrote:
rbbarnh1 wrote:
sbyrktct wrote:I don't see your practice vignette solution posted for review...


im not going to re-create the vignette on an open forum. The only two things i can think of are the angle of the max bldg envelope and if I started it at the benchmark, or if i put the correct part on the layers. Does anyone know if the layers are scored on this vignette? ie, building layer, secondary, etc.??


First, I wrote practice vignette...

Second, yes... layers count.



Hi, can you clarify about the layer thing? I just watched the youtube vide of NCARB PPP Vignette and they didn't even touch the layer icon. If I am drawing a building construction area, do I need to turn off all the other layers and just leave the building construction layer on? Thank you!
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Re: PPP FAIL (Vignette - not sure why or how!!)

Postby Coach » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:16 pm

seriously wrote:Hi, can you clarify about the layer thing? I just watched the youtube vide of NCARB PPP Vignette and they didn't even touch the layer icon. If I am drawing a building construction area, do I need to turn off all the other layers and just leave the building construction layer on? Thank you!

Layers don't matter. All layer control does on this vignette is control what's visible. If you go to draw something that belongs on a layer you have turned off,
it automatically turns that layer on.
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Re: PPP FAIL (Vignette - not sure why or how!!)

Postby seriously » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:34 pm

Coach wrote:
seriously wrote:Hi, can you clarify about the layer thing? I just watched the youtube vide of NCARB PPP Vignette and they didn't even touch the layer icon. If I am drawing a building construction area, do I need to turn off all the other layers and just leave the building construction layer on? Thank you!

Layers don't matter. All layer control does on this vignette is control what's visible. If you go to draw something that belongs on a layer you have turned off,
it automatically turns that layer on.


Thank you, Coach!
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Re: PPP FAIL (Vignette - not sure why or how!!)

Postby sbyrktct » Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:56 pm

seriously wrote:
sbyrktct wrote:
rbbarnh1 wrote:
sbyrktct wrote:I don't see your practice vignette solution posted for review...


im not going to re-create the vignette on an open forum. The only two things i can think of are the angle of the max bldg envelope and if I started it at the benchmark, or if i put the correct part on the layers. Does anyone know if the layers are scored on this vignette? ie, building layer, secondary, etc.??


First, I wrote practice vignette...

Second, yes... layers count.



Hi, can you clarify about the layer thing? I just watched the youtube vide of NCARB PPP Vignette and they didn't even touch the layer icon. If I am drawing a building construction area, do I need to turn off all the other layers and just leave the building construction layer on? Thank you!


By "layers count" I meant don't draw the surface area with the buildable area layer, or vice versa.
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Re: PPP FAIL (Vignette - not sure why or how!!)

Postby Coach » Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:27 pm

sbyrktct wrote:By "layers count" I meant don't draw the surface area with the buildable area layer, or vice versa.


When I checked, layers don't work that way on this vignette. When you draw it's put on the appropriate layer.
Unlike BL, SS, and stair, layers are just for visual convenience.
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Re: PPP FAIL (Vignette - not sure why or how!!)

Postby rbbarnh1 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:55 pm

Coach wrote:
sbyrktct wrote:By "layers count" I meant don't draw the surface area with the buildable area layer, or vice versa.


When I checked, layers don't work that way on this vignette. When you draw it's put on the appropriate layer.
Unlike BL, SS, and stair, layers are just for visual convenience.


Thanks Coach. Thats what I thought too. Either way.. Its clear we have to be methodical,double triple check and believe.
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Re: PPP FAIL (Vignette - not sure why or how!!)

Postby rbbarnh1 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:23 pm

All -
here is my attempt at the vignette again. I feel very good about the sequience of how to solve the vignette. any tips on while im taking the vignette? taking notes, areas to look for that can possible throw me off? I test on Monday and really need to pass this exam if I want to transition to 5.0 with PPP under my belt. Thanks for your time.
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