4th times a charm?

by **ArchGuy87** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:43 pm

So this will be the 4th time I will be taking PPP. (3-26-15 / 10-27-15 / 9-22-2016)

Each time I've done worse. The first fail was only Content Area 4: Project and Practice Management. The 2 after that was Area 4 and the the vignettes. Level 2's, then Level 3's.

image is from the PPP exam guide....I just noticed, they miss numbered 5 as 6... kinda ironic.

For studying I've been using Jennys notes, the kaplan flash cards, and have access to kaplan book, although i have not used it yet.

Any tips to focus on the Area 4 content ?

Thanks!

by **corbismyhomeboy** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:21 am

Reading this sounds like it's hitting some overlap with CDS. Maybe take a look at some of the material that covers contracts and fees. I used Black Spectacles for CDS/PPP/SPD/SD, and it really helped me get the concepts down. If you don't want to pay the hefty $100/month for all of the videos, they post a mock exam free on YouTube where the host, Mike, goes over the questions and answers. I would watch both the CDS and PPP ones.

by **yup1961** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:43 pm

Wait are you seriously using Jenny's Notes as a primary guide? You need to read Kaplan and Ballast, ASAP. I can't even wrap my head around how someone could take a test 3 times before considering using one of the two major guides for this test.

by **ArchGuy87** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:07 pm

Corbis, thanks i haven't heard of black spectacles before.

and yup..i got 5 under my belt without touching kaplan or ballast, but you're right. Its not relevant but I started testing December of 2014, divorces will screw you up for awhile.

by **greek22** » Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:44 am

Pushing this post back up to the top. I also have multiple attempts at PPP. I passed CDS back in September and passed SPD last month. PPP has been so difficult to me. The vignette is not the issue but my multiple choice score varies every time I take it. Last time I took it, I failed Environmental and Codes. Does anybody have any advice? I'm testing again in a little over a month. Thanks in advance!

by **corbismyhomeboy** » Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:18 am

Greek22, are you aiming to transition? If not, I'd say move on to whatever your next test is and come back around to at the end. If this is your last exam before you transition, I would say 1) do whatever practice exams you can get your hands on and 2) look for sources that other people are using on the PPP forum and see if there is resource missing from your study pile. Since your score keeps changing, maybe you haven't covered enough breadth of material and know certain concepts a little less, or maybe you're having trouble with the wording of the questions, not the concepts. (That's why I suggest practice questions.) The wording is very tricky!

by **greek22** » Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:35 pm

corbismyhomeboy wrote:Greek22, are you aiming to transition? If not, I'd say move on to whatever your next test is and come back around to at the end. If this is your last exam before you transition, I would say 1) do whatever practice exams you can get your hands on and 2) look for sources that other people are using on the PPP forum and see if there is resource missing from your study pile. Since your score keeps changing, maybe you haven't covered enough breadth of material and know certain concepts a little less, or maybe you're having trouble with the wording of the questions, not the concepts. (That's why I suggest practice questions.) The wording is very tricky!

I plan on transitioning at this point since it's very tight on time. I'm not sure if I can pass 5 exams in a little over a year! I have basically looked at all the study material out there for this exam. I don't think its so much to do with the concepts because I believe I truly understand the concepts listed in the study material. I think my biggest issue is the randomness of this exam mixed with the wording of the questions. Every time I sat it on it, its been so random and not very related to the study material being used. PPP, in my opinion, is all over the place. I've been to AIA classes on PPP and even the lecturer has stated that PPP is just one of those exams that it doesn't matter if you study for 6 days or 6 weeks, it depends on your luck and the series of questions you get. I've taken all the practice exams, ballast, kaplan, chen, are prep, designer hacks etc. multiple times and even this wasn't enough to help me get through it. What was your process like? Thank you again!

by **vrcat25** » Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:19 pm

greek22 wrote: I've been to AIA classes on PPP and even the lecturer has stated that PPP is just one of those exams that it doesn't matter if you study for 6 days or 6 weeks, it depends on your luck and the series of questions you get.

I agree with this 100%!

by **corbismyhomeboy** » Mon May 01, 2017 6:27 am

I took a month to study for SPD, CDS, and SD (in that order) then took PPP a week after SD. I looked through the study material, but it mostly all looked like stuff I had already studied for the other exams so I didn't spend too much time on it. It was my understanding that PPP was a mixed bag / comprehensive exam of SPD, CDS, and a little extra stuff. I'm pretty sure I listened to all of the Black Spectacles videos for PPP in the background at work, but mostly I focused on the vignette. I didn't realize SD would be 100% practice based when I scheduled my test a month out, so when I was commuting, I would read for PPP. I read the old ALS Pre-Design 1 & 2 guides, and the 2 chapters in Ballast. I typically use ArchiFlash (from 3.1 because that's what I was able to score used for $20) but the Pre-Design cards didn't really seem worthwhile.

Personally, I never use anyone's "notes" because it just seems too confusing to me. I'd rather read and interpret the concepts for myself. I also don't take notes when I read because it ends up interrupting the ideas for me and I honestly almost never look at them again. A night or two before the exam, I'll write the concepts/formulas I'm struggling to remember as a cheat sheet to regurgitate during the first few minutes of the test.

by **vrcat25** » Mon May 01, 2017 8:13 am

corbismyhomeboy wrote:I took a month to study for SPD, CDS, and SD (in that order) then took PPP a week after SD. I looked through the study material, but it mostly all looked like stuff I had already studied for the other exams so I didn't spend too much time on it. It was my understanding that PPP was a mixed bag / comprehensive exam of SPD, CDS, and a little extra stuff. I'm pretty sure I listened to all of the Black Spectacles videos for PPP in the background at work, but mostly I focused on the vignette. I didn't realize SD would be 100% practice based when I scheduled my test a month out, so when I was commuting, I would read for PPP. I read the old ALS Pre-Design 1 & 2 guides, and the 2 chapters in Ballast. I typically use ArchiFlash (from 3.1 because that's what I was able to score used for $20) but the Pre-Design cards didn't really seem worthwhile.

Personally, I never use anyone's "notes" because it just seems too confusing to me. I'd rather read and interpret the concepts for myself. I also don't take notes when I read because it ends up interrupting the ideas for me and I honestly almost never look at them again. A night or two before the exam, I'll write the concepts/formulas I'm struggling to remember as a cheat sheet to regurgitate during the first few minutes of the test.

It seems as if there's a plethora of study material out there and even though i haven't studied a couple of sources you listed, I feel as though i've read and studied more than any other tests i've ever taken and there's still questions that i'm not prepared for. Do these sources cover all the questions or like me, have you found that some of the questions are just too broadly based and are impossible to study for? I've noticed that there's always a question about some architect from the past or present or historical architecture that i know and care anything about. For example, i realize Corbusier, Wright, Gropius, Mies and many many other architects, but shouldn't the line be drawn somewhere? Why should I care about Christopher Alexander and how he arranges furniture?? I guess next time i'll know more about him since there's a chance it might pop up.. I find these questions to be far too obscure to prepare for. I'll just keep my fingers crossed and hope that these are just "trial" questions that don't count towards my score...

by **corbismyhomeboy** » Mon May 01, 2017 11:05 am

Vrcat, on all of my exams (and I've taken all 7 now) there have been some ridiculously broad based questions and some questions so specific, there is no way I could've known to study for some of this stuff. I think you just have to do your best on those kinds of questions that ask about specific historical figures and their influences. A lot of times the questions are more a process of elimination than actually knowing the answer. For example, if they asked about Prairie Style and you didn't know FLW, maybe you cross out Mies, Corb, and Gropius. (But history is kind of funny because if you aren't familiar with at least a few of the people, then you just won't know.) I did notice on mine that I got some random building systems questions, which I had not studied for at that point so I just had to reason through the question as to what made the most sense. What sources have you been studying, vrcat?

If both of you are having a tough time, check out Black Spectacles. It's really good for some of exams (SPD, SD, CDS, PPP), moderately helpful for BS and BDCS but not really helpful at all for SS. Plus if you get the 1 month subscription, you can watch videos from ALL of the exams, so you can go brush up on CDS/SPD topics or start to familiarize yourself with BS topics.

by **vrcat25** » Mon May 01, 2017 11:59 am

At this point, I'd sign up to wear pink spectacles for a month if it helps.. :lol:

how much is it for the black spectacles vids for one month? I don't need it for spd or cds since I already passed them, but PPP has had the most off the wall questions. Some use deductive reasoning, but some don't. As mentioned, I'm quite familiar with the big architect's,but I don't feel as though Christopher Alexander qualifies for that list. Luckily, I had a couple of questions about prominent famous architects/architecture that i'm pretty certain i got correct. Also, since you're a arch history buff, what are some differences between Chinese and Japanese architecture? They look so similar to me and the only difference that i can see it that Chinese used timber and Japanese is elevated off the ground, but for me they are still difficult to distinguish.

by **corbismyhomeboy** » Mon May 01, 2017 2:15 pm

Black Spectacles is $100 / month - pretty steep if you ask me, but much more affordable than some of the other videos out there for the other exams. It automatically renews so make sure you cancel on time! What I meant by watching the other videos is that when you get the $100/month subscription, you can watch any videos for any of the exams. So if you watch all of the PPP ones, and come across some BS info on a practice exam or remember one from your past testing that you're unfamiliar with, you can jump over to that section and watch a few of those for no extra cost. There is also one of the subscription levels that includes practice exams; that's newer and I never felt the need to get that.

If you want to check it out for free first, they have mock exams on YouTube that are typically about an hour. You can go through the questions with him, and he explains how he solved the problem and got to the answer he chose.

I actually have a Masters in Architectural History. (I wanted to be an architectural historian not an architect, but a girl's gotta eat!) That being said, I never took a non-western elective focused in Asia so not sure what the differences are. As far as I understand, Japanese architecture was influenced by Chinese culture, and I think they both use wood. If you have questions regarding non-western, maybe try looking at Mark Jarzombek's A Global History of Architecture since most of that info probably wouldn't be in the typical Trachtenberg survey book most architecture programs use.

by **vrcat25** » Mon May 01, 2017 2:23 pm

Sounds good about the black spectacles videos. I'll take a look into it. I did watch the black spectacles for free on youtube. Do you recall approximately how many videos there are and how many questions and how long it is for PPP?

I don't feel so bad about not knowing the difference with Chinese and Japanese architecture since you're an architectural historian and you don't either, makes me feel better.

by **chrisschumm** » Mon May 01, 2017 9:38 pm

I paid 400$ for black spectacles 6 month access...while I didn't pass ppp I did get a free shirt! Haha, to be honest there's a lot of good info on there probably a few dozen 15+ min videos, I've bombed all 3 of my vignette attempts for ppp..no excuses I simply didn't practice enough like a total jacka#$.. if I passed ss today ppp will be my final... and now that I've taken all of the tests im pretty confident ppp sucks the worse lol...

by **corbismyhomeboy** » Tue May 02, 2017 6:28 am

There are about 85 videos for PPP, all ranging between 1 min long and 15+ mins long. If you go here, you can see what the titles are and what they cover. You don't have to have a login to see what they offer. I'm not sure about the questions because that would be a part of the practice exams which I didn't feel I needed on top of Ballast and Kaplan and the flashcards.

by **vrcat25** » Tue May 02, 2017 6:41 am

Hmmm, I'm most concerned with sample problems and that was one of thr things I likes about the youtube video and "walk thru" of thr questions. So the videos don't have practice questions with explanations like the youtube video?

by **corbismyhomeboy** » Tue May 02, 2017 6:47 am

No it's more like him explaining specific concepts with graphics that he draws out. It comes with a PDF that you can print out and write notes on if you want. Go to the site and watch the few sample videos at the beginning of the session.

And Chrischumm, that's is saying something because SS sucked so so much. I'm praying for an SS pass on my test last week.

by **vrcat25** » Tue May 02, 2017 6:55 am

I've heard so many good things about the Thaddeus seminar (online or live), I'll probably sign up for it in lieu of Black spectacles, since you're saying it doesn't help. I'm wondering if I'd be better off not investing in black spectacles and looking dor something with more sample problems. Besides Kaplan and Ball any good sources with sample test problems?

by **chrisschumm** » Tue May 02, 2017 7:34 am

Thaddeus is pretty awesome (i say that not knowing if i passed SS yet lol) I didnt go to college and have taken no structures so hopefully thaddeus gave me the advantage (knock on particleboard) ... i felt i knew the majority of what they asked but i guess i will know in a week lol

by **vrcat25** » Tue May 02, 2017 7:53 am

chrisschumm wrote:Thaddeus is pretty awesome (i say that not knowing if i passed SS yet lol) I didnt go to college and have taken no structures so hopefully thaddeus gave me the advantage (knock on particleboard) ... i felt i knew the majority of what they asked but i guess i will know in a week lol

bahaha! @ (knock on particleboard)

I wish you the best of luck and hope you passed! I know with PPP there's a little too much "luck" involved. Hopefully, you don't need as much luck with SS and you did enough. You also make me feel better because your main problem is PPP, not to take any skin off your back...You say you've attempted PPP 3 times? How about the other 5 tests? Not to be nosey, but did you struggle with BS, BDCS, CDS and SPD at all or did you pass them on your first attempt? I passed CDS and SPD on second try and I admit the first attempt I hardly studied at all. That's not the case with PPP. I've studied harder than for any other test in college I had tests in physics, calculus and structures and NEVER had the issues thst I'm having with PPP. Not to make excuses, but I think it'd a poorly written test and there's no way to contest the questions. I called NCARB and they won't even here the questions I have a problem with. It'd as if there's some kind of black cloak of secrecy and they allow feedback on bad questions.

by **corbismyhomeboy** » Tue May 02, 2017 8:18 am

I just took SS too, last Thursday, and YES Thaddeus is just as amazing as it sounds. He does so many practice problems during the course, you get it! And there's a 3 hour mock exam video at the end that goes over a ton of different NCARB examples from 4.0, 3.1, and 3.0 guides. He points out the tricky wording, AND shows you how to do the problem. The best thing for me was the color coded graphics (like he uses red for compression, blue for tension, etc.,) so when you're in the test, you can visualize a truss with its parts being red or blue. I studied for structures so much in college, and I could barely scrape through with a B- or C+. And it's not the math for me, just the concepts! I took 3 calculus classes in college, so I'm actually pretty decent at math! Thaddeus is pricey, but cheaper than Amber was for BS. If you're going to get the Thaddeus, I'd do the online because you can go back and rewatch videos. And there is some extra content that he doesn't have time to fit into the live class.

To answer your questions about the other exams, I've taken all 7 at least once now. I failed my first exam which was BDCS. I took it first because most of what I had done up to that point was detailing things during CA. But I didn't realize 1) there's an order that helps and 2) that BDCS was one of the broader exams that has a lot of overlap. So yeah I definitely failed. After my fail on BDCS, I took SPD, CD, SD, PPP, BDCS, took a break, then BS and now SS. I've passed all since then on the first try, except I haven't found out about SS yet. But I've only taken that one once so far. I took them all about a month apart except PPP (studied during SD with one week after the SD exam to work on the vignette), and I took a 3 month break between BDCS and BS for college football season, the holidays and so I could move.

For SS, there is a Kaplan 500 book that has 500 questions (imagine that) but I didn't use it - simply because I didn't want to buy it. Also good luck to you, chriss, I'm hoping to pass as well! YIKES!

by **vrcat25** » Tue May 02, 2017 8:40 am

It sounds as if you and Chrisschumm are well on your way. REALLY appreciate all of your insights Corb/Chrisschumm! Fingers crossed and knocking on particleboard for you guys.

by **corbismyhomeboy** » Tue May 02, 2017 10:50 am

Thanks vrcat! I wish you luck on PPP and your journey! (I'll have to start using that... thanks Chris!)

by **chrisschumm** » Tue May 02, 2017 11:41 am

Here was my journey thusfar lol...

CDS - Fail 2/16
CDS - PASS 4/16
PPP - FAIL 5/16
PPP - FAIL 9/16
SPD - PASS 10/16
PPP - FAIL (Damn.. there goes 5.0..gotta wait 6 months lol) 11/16
BS - FAIL 2/17
BDCS - PASS 3/17
SD - PASS 3/17
BS - PASS 4/17
SS - Hopefully Pass 5/17
PPP - Retake 5/17

I think for me since i didn't go to school i didn't really get upset for test failure (at least as much as my colleagues) .. and the money thing is not really a concern because i literally don't have any credential aside from a high school diploma... so my mindset is if this process cost me 10 grand it would still be worth it for me from a professional certification standpoint.. I think crossing the "half way point" makes them much more bearable and almost fun as i feel i can see a little light at the end of the tunnel!

I work at a firm where there are young people and old people with dreams of getting licensed, but then they tell me the excuses, families, obligations etc... I'm 29 years old, been working in architecture for 11 years, just got engaged... i'm sure kids are on the horizon... i just would rather suffer and complete these stupid tests now vs. when i'm in a position to generate excuses myself. I think out of all of this i've learned these test your patience and persistence more than anything else.

by **corbismyhomeboy** » Tue May 02, 2017 2:21 pm

I meant to post this earlier but couldn't find it: https://arewethereblog.com/candys-picks/

It's a list of "must haves" of resources for each exam plus some other resources. Scroll down past the picture of the cat. Obviously it's a list someone else made (Candy!) but maybe check what you've been doing against this and see what you think.

by **Coach** » Tue May 02, 2017 2:47 pm

corbismyhomeboy wrote:I meant to post this earlier but couldn't find it: https://arewethereblog.com/candys-picks/

It's a list of "must haves" of resources for each exam plus some other resources. Scroll down past the picture of the cat. Obviously it's a list someone else made (Candy!) but maybe check what you've been doing against this and see what you think.

Obviously dated. Substitute my videos for Dorf's!

by **vrcat25** » Tue May 02, 2017 3:18 pm

Coach wrote:
Obviously dated. Substitute my videos for Dorf's!

But does yours have a picture of a cat Coach? We all know everybody LOVES cats..hahaha! :lol:

Seriously though, I was going to take a look at your videos Coach, but for some reason I thought you didn't have one for PPP...I'll take a look at both. As mentioned, I'll do ANYTHING to pass this test as long as it's legal and/or I don't have to sell any vital organs. Non vital organs are still on the table though.

by **Coach** » Tue May 02, 2017 3:59 pm

vrcat25 wrote:But does yours have a picture of a cat Coach? We all know everybody LOVES cats..hahaha!

dakitty.JPG

Seriously though, I was going to take a look at your videos Coach, but for some reason I thought you didn't have one for PPP...

I don't at this time.

by **vrcat25** » Thu May 04, 2017 5:06 am

Ironically, for me, 4th time was a charm. I just found out this morning i passed PPP so i'm done with "the big 3". For those of you out there who haven't passed yet, DON'T GIVE UP! I would suggest rescheduling as soon as you're eligible and make sure you figure out the questions you didn't know the first time around because there's a strong likelihood that they will pop up again. What helped me prepare for this test the most were my previous 3 failures. As obscure as some of the questions were, I researched them so that when the popped up again, I was more prepared.

by **corbismyhomeboy** » Thu May 04, 2017 6:19 am

CONGRATS VRCAT! That's so great! It sounds like you worked really hard for this one! Yes, don't give up because if you do, there's 100% chance you'll never pass.

by **vrcat25** » Thu May 04, 2017 6:41 am

Thank you Corb! You and a few others in this forum really helped to motivate and inspire me. I guess you can say I worked hard for this test, but I didn't "work smart". I really underestimated this test because it seemed as if it should be easier than CDS and SPD so, i didn't really study as much as i should have the first and second attempt. On top of that, I refused to pay money for some of the recommended sources such as Black Spectacles and many others. I was kind of arrogant and naive going into these first 3 tests and didn't want to spend any money and thought i could just get by from asking questions in this forum or reading Caroline's notes. If i had it to do over, I would have spent more money. That being said, there were some very obscure questions even on my 4th attempt and I'm lucky and thankful to finally be done with the big 3. I'm definitely taking your advise and going to purchase the Thaddeus seminar. I'll probably go ahead and do that this weekend.

by **chrisschumm** » Thu May 04, 2017 7:34 am

vrcat25 wrote:Thank you Corb! You and a few others in this forum really helped to motivate and inspire me. I guess you can say I worked hard for this test, but I didn't "work smart". I really underestimated this test because it seemed as if it should be easier than CDS and SPD so, i didn't really study as much as i should have the first and second attempt. On top of that, I refused to pay money for some of the recommended sources such as Black Spectacles and many others. I was kind of arrogant and naive going into these first 3 tests and didn't want to spend any money and thought i could just get by from asking questions in this forum or reading Caroline's notes. If i had it to do over, I would have spent more money. That being said, there were some very obscure questions even on my 4th attempt and I'm lucky and thankful to finally be done with the big 3. I'm definitely taking your advise and going to purchase the Thaddeus seminar. I'll probably go ahead and do that this weekend.

Congrats!, hopefully i can be so lucky next friday... if not.. ill be in hawaii on vacation to get my results so i wont give a c$#P haha

by **vrcat25** » Thu May 04, 2017 7:59 am

chrisschumm wrote:
Congrats!, hopefully i can be so lucky next friday... if not.. ill be in hawaii on vacation to get my results so i wont give a c$#P haha

Hahaha! Thank you Chrisschumm. I wouldn't care if i were in hawaii either. As a matter of fact, I'd probably wait until my vacation is over to look at my score, just in case, to not spoil it. I've always dreamed of going on a Hawaiian cruise. This time next year, I will probably go on one, but only after i pass these last couple tests...I made the mistake of planning a vacay right after a fail one time and it kind of put a damper on things...Hopefully, you pass though. Have fun!

by **chrisschumm** » Thu May 11, 2017 3:28 am

vrcat25 wrote:
chrisschumm wrote:
Congrats!, hopefully i can be so lucky next friday... if not.. ill be in hawaii on vacation to get my results so i wont give a c$#P haha

Hahaha! Thank you Chrisschumm. I wouldn't care if i were in hawaii either. As a matter of fact, I'd probably wait until my vacation is over to look at my score, just in case, to not spoil it. I've always dreamed of going on a Hawaiian cruise. This time next year, I will probably go on one, but only after i pass these last couple tests...I made the mistake of planning a vacay right after a fail one time and it kind of put a damper on things...Hopefully, you pass though. Have fun!

Got my SS pass result!!!!... damn, really.. ppp is going to be my last test lol!!! Now the race to pass ppp before my birthday on the 19th

by **corbismyhomeboy** » Thu May 11, 2017 6:46 am

Congrats Chrisschumm! I had a friend who waited to take PPP very very last in his testing sequence, and passed no problem. Hopefully this will be the case for you too!!

by **vrcat25** » Thu May 11, 2017 7:43 am

Congrats Chrisschumm! Hopefully, this thread lives up to it's name and the 4th time is a charm for you as well! When do you plan on taking PPP and when are you going to Hawaii. Even if you don't pass, I wouldn't let it spoil your vacation. You still have 2 more tries before your 1 year wait kicks in. I doubt it will come to that though.

by **chrisschumm** » Thu May 11, 2017 1:41 pm

vrcat25 wrote:Congrats Chrisschumm! Hopefully, this thread lives up to it's name and the 4th time is a charm for you as well! When do you plan on taking PPP and when are you going to Hawaii. Even if you don't pass, I wouldn't let it spoil your vacation. You still have 2 more tries before your 1 year wait kicks in. I doubt it will come to that though.

Haha! i take PPP tomorrow at 8AM, I feel pretty good about it this round...probably because i've actually opened the study guide this time :lol:

I leave for Hawaii on the 16th, so i will be there to hear the news on thursday the 18th - 1 day before my 30th bday! hows that for timing!!! I was raised in Hawaii and this will be the first time my entire family has gone back as a group in 17 years, so regardless of my PPP test results i will enjoy my 2 weeks away!

On a side note- I felt like structures was where i was going to have the hardest time with these tests, i studied pretty hard (2 weeks) perhaps i lucked out, but i finished the entire ss test in 1.5 hrs LOL! Thaddeus is expensive but soo totally worth it..

by **vrcat25** » Fri May 12, 2017 10:28 am

chrisschumm wrote: Thaddeus is expensive but soo totally worth it..

For you, but I don't think it will be worth it at all for 5.0. Do you? It sounds like it was worth it for you though. Hopefully, you get the same results for PPP!

Have fun in Hawaii and post us a postcard.

I can't think of a better way to cap off what hopefully will be your last test my friend!

by **chrisschumm** » Fri May 12, 2017 11:19 am

vrcat25 wrote:
chrisschumm wrote: Thaddeus is expensive but soo totally worth it..

For you, but I don't think it will be worth it at all for 5.0. Do you? It sounds like it was worth it for you though. Hopefully, you get the same results for PPP!

Have fun in Hawaii and post us a postcard. I can't think of a better way to cap off what hopefully will be your last test my friend!

Yeah i dont know enough about the 5.0 structural portions...

Cheers...or should i say Aloha!

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