I finished the ARE and it made me a worse Architect

I finished the ARE and it made me a worse Architect

Postby mjs » Thu May 10, 2018 8:17 am

Well not entirely, but it did slow down my growth. I have been working full time for about 4 years now. I took the first little while to get accustomed to full time work, then jumped into testing. I tested for about a year and a half, and have had my license for well over a year now. Looking back on the whole process, it is truly a disaster.

The fact that NCARB has a minimum standard that they expect a professional architect to know, yet do not produce any real study materials, is truly astounding (their joke of a little packet doesn't count in my opinion). Many people spend crazy amounts of time reading books, studying vocabulary, reading other people's notes, doing all kinds of things to learn information that most likely will never show up on the tests. That is why the people that do well on the tests often study less, because all they need to do is figure out the NCARB question game. It is a logic test no different than the SAT. You can't study the actual material on the test, so the way to be successful is to study the thought process behind their questions.

Does this process actually help you become more knowledgeable or a better architect? In my experience, absolutely not. I usually skimmed the Kaplan and Ballast books, then just studied their question structures, and never failed a multiple choice section (the site planning vignette got me once). Much of this has to do with the fact that I'm a logical person and do well on logic tests. Most creatives and designers, aka architects, are not and don't do well with this structure at all. Most of the best architects I know struggled significantly with the ARE tests, and some never even finished them (I still refer to them as architects...because...NCARB).

Now that I am done dealing with ARE testing, I have much more time at lunch and outside of work to actually further research and study the issues I am dealing with in the office, and the issues that I am actually interested in. Experience is what makes you a better architect, not the ARE. I am 100% sure that I would be a better architect today if I had not had to take the ARE (and in my personal opinion, cutting experience hours is going in the opposite direction as well).

With all of that being said, NCARB is a truly laughable organization. They are the biggest joke of a professional organization that I have ever seen, and should be treated as such. I have close friends who have taken the BAR, Medical Licensing Exams, CPA exams, etc., and none of which have had to endure half of the crap that we go through. If NCARB wants people to actually learn specific material to pass their tests, they need to produce it. Bottom line. None of this third party junk that turns the whole thing into a game and not actually a test of knowledge. What do they gain from the "secrecy" of the material that's on the test? Nothing (well maybe money...). If they want people to know certain things to become a professional, tell them what that is and let them learn it. The majority of the information I was supposed to be studying, I didn't study. Instead I studied the NCARB thought process and learned nothing, yet here I am as a licensed architect.

Congratulations NCARB, you could actually make more money by producing study materials and losing the secrecy, and you would actually help people become better architects. Instead, you are just in the way of this profession.
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Re: I finished the ARE and it made me a worse Architect

Postby Coach » Thu May 10, 2018 4:06 pm

mjs wrote:The fact that NCARB has a minimum standard that they expect a professional architect to know, yet do not produce any real study materials, is truly astounding (their joke of a little packet doesn't count in my opinion).

It's not their job to teach.

Many people spend crazy amounts of time reading books, studying vocabulary, reading other people's notes, doing all kinds of things to learn information that most likely will never show up on the tests. That is why the people that do well on the tests often study less, because all they need to do is figure out the NCARB question game. It is a logic test no different than the SAT. You can't study the actual material on the test, so the way to be successful is to study the thought process behind their questions.

Of course. And 5.0 moves further away from rote recitation to a greater command of concepts and logic. That's not a bad thing.

Does this process actually help you become more knowledgeable or a better architect?

The exam is not meant to make you a better architect.

I am 100% sure that I would be a better architect today if I had not had to take the ARE

No, you wouldn't be an architect at all.

With all of that being said, NCARB is a truly laughable organization. They are the biggest joke of a professional organization that I have ever seen, and should be treated as such. I have close friends who have taken the BAR, Medical Licensing Exams, CPA exams, etc., and none of which have had to endure half of the crap that we go through.

I'm sure that no other professional candidate has ever complained about their exams. :roll:

If NCARB wants people to actually learn specific material to pass their tests, they need to produce it. Bottom line. None of this third party junk that turns the whole thing into a game and not actually a test of knowledge. What do they gain from the "secrecy" of the material that's on the test? Nothing (well maybe money...). If they want people to know certain things to become a professional, tell them what that is and let them learn it. The majority of the information I was supposed to be studying, I didn't study. Instead I studied the NCARB thought process and learned nothing, yet here I am as a licensed architect.

Ncarb's though process huh? So what is it? Oh, that pesky logic thing? Hmmm, and how does one apply logic without knowledge of the underlying material?

Quite an enigma.


Congratulations NCARB, you could actually make more money by producing study materials and losing the secrecy, and you would actually help people become better architects. Instead, you are just in the way of this profession.

Ugh.
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Re: I finished the ARE and it made me a worse Architect

Postby Sparky83 » Thu May 10, 2018 6:21 pm

mjs wrote:Well not entirely, but it did slow down my growth. I have been working full time for about 4 years now. I took the first little while to get accustomed to full time work, then jumped into testing. I tested for about a year and a half, and have had my license for well over a year now. Looking back on the whole process, it is truly a disaster.

The fact that NCARB has a minimum standard that they expect a professional architect to know, yet do not produce any real study materials, is truly astounding (their joke of a little packet doesn't count in my opinion). Many people spend crazy amounts of time reading books, studying vocabulary, reading other people's notes, doing all kinds of things to learn information that most likely will never show up on the tests. That is why the people that do well on the tests often study less, because all they need to do is figure out the NCARB question game. It is a logic test no different than the SAT. You can't study the actual material on the test, so the way to be successful is to study the thought process behind their questions.

Does this process actually help you become more knowledgeable or a better architect? In my experience, absolutely not. I usually skimmed the Kaplan and Ballast books, then just studied their question structures, and never failed a multiple choice section (the site planning vignette got me once). Much of this has to do with the fact that I'm a logical person and do well on logic tests. Most creatives and designers, aka architects, are not and don't do well with this structure at all. Most of the best architects I know struggled significantly with the ARE tests, and some never even finished them (I still refer to them as architects...because...NCARB).

Now that I am done dealing with ARE testing, I have much more time at lunch and outside of work to actually further research and study the issues I am dealing with in the office, and the issues that I am actually interested in. Experience is what makes you a better architect, not the ARE. I am 100% sure that I would be a better architect today if I had not had to take the ARE (and in my personal opinion, cutting experience hours is going in the opposite direction as well).

With all of that being said, NCARB is a truly laughable organization. They are the biggest joke of a professional organization that I have ever seen, and should be treated as such. I have close friends who have taken the BAR, Medical Licensing Exams, CPA exams, etc., and none of which have had to endure half of the crap that we go through. If NCARB wants people to actually learn specific material to pass their tests, they need to produce it. Bottom line. None of this third party junk that turns the whole thing into a game and not actually a test of knowledge. What do they gain from the "secrecy" of the material that's on the test? Nothing (well maybe money...). If they want people to know certain things to become a professional, tell them what that is and let them learn it. The majority of the information I was supposed to be studying, I didn't study. Instead I studied the NCARB thought process and learned nothing, yet here I am as a licensed architect.

Congratulations NCARB, you could actually make more money by producing study materials and losing the secrecy, and you would actually help people become better architects. Instead, you are just in the way of this profession.

WHY do you think NCARB is about making you a better Architect? Why is that their job?
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Re: I finished the ARE and it made me a worse Architect

Postby nickedemus » Fri May 11, 2018 3:50 am

mjs wrote:Well not entirely, but it did slow down my growth. I have been working full time for about 4 years now. I took the first little while to get accustomed to full time work, then jumped into testing. I tested for about a year and a half, and have had my license for well over a year now. Looking back on the whole process, it is truly a disaster.

The fact that NCARB has a minimum standard that they expect a professional architect to know, yet do not produce any real study materials, is truly astounding (their joke of a little packet doesn't count in my opinion). Many people spend crazy amounts of time reading books, studying vocabulary, reading other people's notes, doing all kinds of things to learn information that most likely will never show up on the tests. That is why the people that do well on the tests often study less, because all they need to do is figure out the NCARB question game. It is a logic test no different than the SAT. You can't study the actual material on the test, so the way to be successful is to study the thought process behind their questions.

Does this process actually help you become more knowledgeable or a better architect? In my experience, absolutely not. I usually skimmed the Kaplan and Ballast books, then just studied their question structures, and never failed a multiple choice section (the site planning vignette got me once). Much of this has to do with the fact that I'm a logical person and do well on logic tests. Most creatives and designers, aka architects, are not and don't do well with this structure at all. Most of the best architects I know struggled significantly with the ARE tests, and some never even finished them (I still refer to them as architects...because...NCARB).

Now that I am done dealing with ARE testing, I have much more time at lunch and outside of work to actually further research and study the issues I am dealing with in the office, and the issues that I am actually interested in. Experience is what makes you a better architect, not the ARE. I am 100% sure that I would be a better architect today if I had not had to take the ARE (and in my personal opinion, cutting experience hours is going in the opposite direction as well).

With all of that being said, NCARB is a truly laughable organization. They are the biggest joke of a professional organization that I have ever seen, and should be treated as such. I have close friends who have taken the BAR, Medical Licensing Exams, CPA exams, etc., and none of which have had to endure half of the crap that we go through. If NCARB wants people to actually learn specific material to pass their tests, they need to produce it. Bottom line. None of this third party junk that turns the whole thing into a game and not actually a test of knowledge. What do they gain from the "secrecy" of the material that's on the test? Nothing (well maybe money...). If they want people to know certain things to become a professional, tell them what that is and let them learn it. The majority of the information I was supposed to be studying, I didn't study. Instead I studied the NCARB thought process and learned nothing, yet here I am as a licensed architect.

Congratulations NCARB, you could actually make more money by producing study materials and losing the secrecy, and you would actually help people become better architects. Instead, you are just in the way of this profession.


This post sounds suspiciously like another poster around here, whose name begins with a "v."
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Re: I finished the ARE and it made me a worse Architect

Postby vrcat25 » Fri May 11, 2018 7:04 am

nickedemus wrote:
This post sounds suspiciously like another poster around here, whose name begins with a "v."


it's not, but i can't say i disagree with too many of his points. How about you nick? Are you going to just make false accusations or do you have an actual opinion?

For example, I can agree with the handbook being a joke and the lack of study material. I don't know any lawyers, doctors or cpa's, but i've always wondered if their tests are as ridiculously difficult.

I know a couple architects that don't have much common sense, but passed all the tests.

I REALLY agree with what MJS said about "That is why the people that do well on the tests often study less, because all they need to do is figure out the NCARB question game." For the 3 tests i passed, i did better when i studied less. It's crazy, but every time i go into the test, i realize that i wasted time studying too much content and get a "logic question". To be honest with you Nick, I never knew what a logic question even meant until i read this thread...
Last edited by vrcat25 on Fri May 11, 2018 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I finished the ARE and it made me a worse Architect

Postby Sarcasmo » Fri May 11, 2018 10:40 am

mjs -- NCARB's mission is regulating licensure standards, not education.

That said, you have my heartfelt best wishes toward a full and complete recovery from the monstrous treatment you received at the hands of NCARB. One can only imagine how much that professional license is just a daily reminder of such a dark time in your life.
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Re: I finished the ARE and it made me a worse Architect

Postby nickedemus » Fri May 11, 2018 2:51 pm

vrcat25 wrote:
nickedemus wrote:Instead of disparaging others and making false accusations maybe you can add something? I realize based on your past comments, you would rather hurl insults and accusations, but hardly ever do you say anything positive or meaningful.


Come on, that's just silly. I've never hurled insults at or disparaged anyone on this board. Also, I don't understand why you would consider it an insult to be compared to mjs when you agree with mjs.
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Re: I finished the ARE and it made me a worse Architect

Postby standard » Fri May 11, 2018 3:56 pm

I dont care that I learned stuff that was never on the exams. I’m sure you would have liked a study guide that said memorize this info. But tough beans buddy.

I think you made yourself a worse architect and slowed down your own growth.

I love learning and it makes me a better architect the more I know.
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Re: I finished the ARE and it made me a worse Architect

Postby vrcat25 » Fri May 11, 2018 4:07 pm

nickedemus wrote:
Come on, that's just silly. I've never hurled insults at or disparaged anyone on this board. Also, I don't understand why you would consider it an insult to be compared to mjs when you agree with mjs.


My bad nick..i was mistaken with you and thought you were somebody else...I didn't passive aggressively accuse you of being someone else though, but still, i apologize.
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Re: I finished the ARE and it made me a worse Architect

Postby bonn13 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:42 pm

Hello I'm looking interview anyone who would like to make the next step in their career for some market research. If you’re available for a 20-minute interview over the next week or so, please let me know! Many thanks!
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