NYS 5.0 Review/Challenge Process Win

NYS 5.0 Review/Challenge Process Win

Postby nickp1085 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:53 am

Since my 3rd failed PPD test (and last one to boot) I reached out to NCARB for their review/challenge process in Aug. Because at this point I'm at my wits end and do not know what else to do until I can take the test again in March 2018. I know people will continue to say just keep going at it and try to give advise on how to study all that encouragement which is very appreciative but I have a lot of time to kill so why not. This is just about the only thing I haven't tried.

NCARB does administer the review but it is up to the states to decide if they would allow it. Luckily they advised me that NYS was still participating in the review/challenge process for 5.0. Most states do not offer this. So I contact NYS and this is where it gets interesting. I talk to a general employee who sends me documents to fill out and to read all of the insane rules. He specifically says on the phone that the forms say 4.0 but I can fill them out for 5.0. However, it was impossible to fill out for 5.0 so I call back and they keep passing me around to higher ups and I finally get to the Vice President of this education department. He proceeds to tell me I'm the 1st person to contact NYS about 5.0 review/challenge process and that he did not know why his employees were telling me that 5.0 is still doing the process when it hadn't been voted on yet. At this point I flipped my shit. Extremely contradictory to the email documents I received to fill out for the review process and very concerning that this was not determined already since 5.0 has been in operation for almost 1 year. This supervisor also went on to basically tell me to move on and do not pursue this review/challenge process because he did not believe it was worth it for the challenge process, to which I replied that I wanted the review process only and he proceeded to try to persuade me to just not pursue. He also told me that he would be voting 'NO' on having the 5.0 process and that he needed to speak to the 'NYS Board' and NCARB and would email me back however that never happened. I'm so glad our state officials really want to represent what the people want haha, but I have to be grateful that they are a state that will even still possibly allow this. I kept calling and pestering NYS about this and I feel like because of my passion to keep this going they just got back to me (3 months later) that they will in fact have the 5.0 review challenge process!
nickp1085
 

Re: NYS 5.0 Review/Challenge Process Win

Postby nickedemus » Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:53 am

Unsurprisingly, the review process is horribly unclear. But do you realize that only the jurisdiction that approves you (IF they approve you) is required to accept that approval, and that you can't be NCARB-certified? See the last page of this document.

https://www.ncarb.org/sites/default/fil ... elines.pdf
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Re: NYS 5.0 Review/Challenge Process Win

Postby nickp1085 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:15 am

I do not intend to challenge any question at all nor am I looking to have my score changed. I know that is pointless plus its $100 to challenge per question beyond the $325 sit down fee in NYS. In the review/challenge process you only get to review the questions you got wrong and they will NOT give you the correct answer. This way I will see I got wrong and can make some judgement calls.

I attached the actual forms that you have to fill out for NYS review/challenge process if you are interested. These were literally just completed last week. And if you think the ARE5.0 document is unclear wait until you get through the two docs that I attached. One is the rules for NCARB and the other is for NYS. They have contradictory info in each of them. However, I have spoke with NCARB and NYS about these and they somewhat clarified those items.
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Last edited by nickp1085 on Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
nickp1085
 

Re: NYS 5.0 Review/Challenge Process Win

Postby nickedemus » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:52 am

nickp1085 wrote:I do not intend to challenge any question at all nor am I looking to have my score changed. I know that is pointless plus its $100 to challenge per question beyond the $325 sit down fee in NYS. In the review/challenge process you only get to review the questions you got wrong and they will NOT give you the correct answer.I still want to go through with this because I brain dump a ton of questions into my notebook after each exam of all the questions I can remember. This way I may be able to compare some questions that I wrote down previously to the ones I will see I got wrong and can make some judgement calls.


So you are just looking to pay the $325 and see the questions that you got wrong? That's probably your best bet. I can see how it might be useful.

I can't believe they charge $100 per question to challenge a question, especially when the benefits are so limited if you win your case! I think that's a disgraceful thing for a government to do.
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Re: NYS 5.0 Review/Challenge Process Win

Postby nickp1085 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:38 am

Yea I do have to pay the $325 fee but I think it will be worth it at this point. I just plan to go through the review process. Not challenge anything.

Yea $100 is insane. And yet when I spoke with anyone at NYS they always kept saying, 'not a lot of people do this so its not really worth it', as if they couldn't understand why people would do this. Well yea when you make it $100 to challenge a question and all the other ridiculous limitations they have. It would really only take someone failing multiple times to actually even consider paying for all this.
nickp1085
 

Re: NYS 5.0 Review/Challenge Process Win

Postby atmosquare » Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:40 pm

There is another way, which is less known.

I've done something called a Score Verification Review.
It's different than Review/Challenge.

They review your exam to check if anything was in error, to see if your score is indeed correct.
You don't get to see your exam, but you get a short email report, saying something like
you got a 1 in this category but you were pretty close to 2, or your vignette had a major error
while drawing this, etc. The report is very basic, but it helped me not to think about it anymore.

The good thing is, the process is $100 total (New York). I've done it because I felt
there may have been some program error on the vignette and I wanted to be sure.

I hope that helps. Not sure if they do it for 5.0 though.
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Re: NYS 5.0 Review/Challenge Process Win

Postby cloudyy » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:08 pm

atmosquare wrote:There is another way, which is less known.

I've done something called a Score Verification Review.
It's different than Review/Challenge.

They review your exam to check if anything was in error, to see if your score is indeed correct.
You don't get to see your exam, but you get a short email report, saying something like
you got a 1 in this category but you were pretty close to 2, or your vignette had a major error
while drawing this, etc. The report is very basic, but it helped me not to think about it anymore.

The good thing is, the process is $100 total (New York). I've done it because I felt
there may have been some program error on the vignette and I wanted to be sure.

I hope that helps. Not sure if they do it for 5.0 though.


You get a vague numerical rating in various categories in the score report. How is this anything other than them charging you $100 to tell you that you failed for a second time?
cloudyy
 

Re: NYS 5.0 Review/Challenge Process Win

Postby atmosquare » Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:51 pm

For one thing, they tell you which categories you are weak at.
The score report may say you got a 1, but it tells you where you were very close to 2.

And secondly, they tell you exactly what part of the vignette you got wrong.
For example, saying your elevation heights were incorrect, etc.

It helped me, and I'm just saying what I did. It's your choice to do it or not.
And besides, it's the only option available for people who cannot physically
go to Challenge/Review. ie. people living abroard.
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Re: NYS 5.0 Review/Challenge Process Win

Postby nickp1085 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:57 pm

UPDATE: I literally just got out of my review/challenge process (after 7 months of fighting for this to happen). And it was beyond worth it. I did not challenge anything but this review process in NYS (as cumbersome the initial process is) I would highly recommend to anyone who has failed any section multiple times. May not be worth it for after a single fail tho.

The benefit to this process was being able to ascertain exactly what questions you got wrong on the latest exam. (Obviously from what you personally could remember as no notes are allowed out of the review nor the tests). While you do not get to see the correct answer nor all of these may show up on the next exam, I have taken them enough times now to compare from some of the repeats and gauge what NCARB may really looking for in some of their tricky questions.

There are still a ton of Cons to this process but the few Pros outweigh it. If your state allows this...DO IT!
nickp1085
 


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