Purgatory after completing final exam

Purgatory after completing final exam

Postby Zanno » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:50 am

Here's one for y'all to chew on: at what point can I legitimately call myself an architect, and be compensated as such, after completing all of my ARE and state licensing exams? NCARB is taking forever (going on week 4) to review my record and send it to the State. Not much I can do but be patient, the reason I ask the question is because I am looking at new job opportunities but want to be honest with my prospective employers about the status of my licensure, without selling myself short.

A friend of mine who is also waiting to do her oral interview/get her license number has been applying for jobs recently and was actually offered a position of 'Intern 4' or some nonsense like that, with a start date two days before she was going in front of the state board. This seems lame to me--technically she is not yet licensed but, she's 99.9% of the way there!

(Also, my state board meets every other month, which means the earliest Ill be licensed is October 31, even though I took my last exam on August 4th!) So, as a job applicant I am not yet 'licensed' but, being so close now, can I call myself an architect? Understood we are in the long game here, and we all believe in the sanctity of being licensed or else we wouldn't be going through this process... just curious to get some perspectives.
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Re: Purgatory after completing final exam

Postby kerzzo » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:17 am

there has to be a way to make it count---in the past when our office interviewed people, we wanted to see where they were in the process of obtaining licenses as so not to discredit their experience etc. it really did not make any difference (so much) with salary requirements. I have seen this across other firms...one time I sent in qualifications and it was strongly suggested that i indicate how many exams I have completed and how many left to take and provide an estimate of time frame to full completion---in your case it seems it is easier as your status will simply say you're waiting for your license #.

In cases like yours taking an offer will have to be thought about with regards to your licensing status, saying after you show proof of being licenses, your status in the firm will automatically be changed along with any salary requirements. It's either that or wait to start looking until you're licensed.

that's my two cents :D
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Re: Purgatory after completing final exam

Postby Coach » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:09 am

Zanno wrote:Here's one for y'all to chew on: at what point can I legitimately call myself an architect,

When the state gives you a license.

and be compensated as such,

That may never happen.

after completing all of my ARE and state licensing exams?

Nope.

NCARB is taking forever (going on week 4) to review my record and send it to the State. Not much I can do but be patient, the reason I ask the question is because I am looking at new job opportunities but want to be honest with my prospective employers about the status of my licensure, without selling myself short.

You say "licensure pending". If a prospective employer doesn't understand the process look elsewhere.

A friend of mine who is also waiting to do her oral interview/get her license number has been applying for jobs recently and was actually offered a position of 'Intern 4' or some nonsense like that, with a start date two days before she was going in front of the state board. This seems lame to me--technically she is not yet licensed but, she's 99.9% of the way there!

She should have completely covered the situation with prospective employer. If you don't speak up and present all information, what do you expect?

(Also, my state board meets every other month, which means the earliest Ill be licensed is October 31, even though I took my last exam on August 4th!) So, as a job applicant I am not yet 'licensed' but, being so close now, can I call myself an architect?

The short answer is no. The longer answer is HELL NO. And the even longer answer is, sure, go ahead, then when the board meets and is presented with evidence that you represented yourself as a licensed architect without having a license, they can tell you to take a hike.

Understood we are in the long game here, and we all believe in the sanctity of being licensed or else we wouldn't be going through this process... just curious to get some perspectives.

There is only one valid perspective. No number, no architect. And BTW, the moment you cross state line, no number in new state, no architect.
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Re: Purgatory after completing final exam

Postby Zanno » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:40 am

Coach,

In no way am I suggesting that I would EVER represent myself as a licensed architect when I am not. Being very close to having a license number is not the same as being licensed, no if ands or buts about it.

My friend did present all information at her interview, at some point it seems ridiculous to give someone a start date literally two days before they get their license -- frankly it feels like the company is trying to pay her as little as possible, If they had offered her a start date the following Monday, they would have to acknowledge she is not a fully licensed architect. Just presenting a real life case here.

And things get really murky when people who aren't licensed call themselves architects...but it happens all the time. Not saying I approve of it, just recognizing the title seems to mean different things to different people. I see job postings for project architect that don't explicitly require a license, go figure.
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Re: Purgatory after completing final exam

Postby Coach » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:59 am

Zanno wrote:In no way am I suggesting that I would EVER represent myself as a licensed architect when I am not. Being very close to having a license number is not the same as being licensed, no if ands or buts about it.

Didn't you ask the question?

My friend did present all information at her interview, at some point it seems ridiculous to give someone a start date literally two days before they get their license -- frankly it feels like the company is trying to pay her as little as possible, If they had offered her a start date the following Monday, they would have to acknowledge she is not a fully licensed architect. Just presenting a real life case here.

You're reading way too much into it. If you want to do that, here's another possibility:

If they offered her "intern 4", to me that implies a large firm. So let's say the politics at that firm are such that principals get rewarded, or play a little game among themselves, for getting people under them licensed. So the person that wants her is looking at instant gratification.

Why doesn't she just ask them what she can expect when she gets her license. Odds are that nothing will change. You aren't automatically smarter or more competent the day after you get your license. If a firm changes your responsibilities, that's a different story.

They hired her now because they have the need now and she applied now. Who in the hell would say, "Wait, don't hire me yet, I'm getting my license soon!" That's beyond stupid.

And if she truly believes they're playing a game, why in the hell would she want to work there?


And things get really murky when people who aren't licensed call themselves architects...but it happens all the time.

It's not murky, it's illegal. It does happen all the time and when reported to the state board, websites are edited or taken down, and perpetrators are often fined.

Not saying I approve of it, just recognizing the title seems to mean different things to different people.

Uh, in our realm, no, it doesn't.

I see job postings for project architect that don't explicitly require a license, go figure.

Internal titles are meaningless. But if someone with that job has that title on their business card, it's a violation.
Also, if an architectural firm is advertising for a project architect, don't you think that having a license is implied?

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Re: Purgatory after completing final exam

Postby Zanno » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:34 pm

Coach,

I do not believe that in our industry, the term architect automatically implies that you are a licensed architect. Or rather, I've seen lots of people call themselves by this name who did not have a license.
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Re: Purgatory after completing final exam

Postby Coach » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:46 pm

Zanno wrote:Coach,

I do not believe that in our industry, the term architect automatically implies that you are a licensed architect. Or rather, I've seen lots of people call themselves by this name who did not have a license.

Oh, but it does. And if you call yourself an architect when not licensed, you are committing a crime.
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Re: Purgatory after completing final exam

Postby cloudyy » Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:32 pm

Zanno wrote: I do not believe that in our industry, the term architect automatically implies that you are a licensed architect. Or rather, I've seen lots of people call themselves by this name who did not have a license.


Just because others do it doesn't make it right.
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Re: Purgatory after completing final exam

Postby kerzzo » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:27 pm

cloudyy wrote:
Zanno wrote: I do not believe that in our industry, the term architect automatically implies that you are a licensed architect. Or rather, I've seen lots of people call themselves by this name who did not have a license.


Just because others do it doesn't make it right.


In a few words, we are all asking for everyone to be patient ....the process is there, the license # will get to your hands. Stay positive
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Re: Purgatory after completing final exam

Postby tmston2 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:04 am

Coach wrote:
Zanno wrote:Coach,

I do not believe that in our industry, the term architect automatically implies that you are a licensed architect. Or rather, I've seen lots of people call themselves by this name who did not have a license.

Oh, but it does. And if you call yourself an architect when not licensed, you are committing a crime.

Can i work under the label I.T. architect in an architecture firm as a Project architect w/ no architecture license?
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Re: Purgatory after completing final exam

Postby Coach » Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:40 am

tmston2 wrote:Can i work under the label I.T. architect in an architecture firm as a Project architect w/ no architecture license?

I'm guessing that's a tongue-in-cheek question, but if not, I have a question for you.

Do you want to jeopardize you ability to get licensed just to put "architect" on your business card?
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Re: Purgatory after completing final exam

Postby nickedemus » Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:25 am

Zanno wrote:Not much I can do but be patient, the reason I ask the question is because I am looking at new job opportunities but want to be honest with my prospective employers about the status of my licensure, without selling myself short.


Zanno, you can circumvent the whole 'architect' issue by giving the potential employer the date and registration number for each of your passed exams. Potential employers can use that information to verify that you've passed the exams at this website:

https://www.certmetrics.com/ncarb/publi ... ation.aspx

Proof that all seven exams have been passed speaks for itself and factors the legal technicality out.

NCARB and AIA's wishy-washy positions on the issue of terminology are unsurprisingly frustrating. It's funny how the main agreement that these two organizations make is not to make a decisive choice. They need to take a page from NSPE, ASCE, and the Professional Engineer licensing process. But I'm guessing they wouldn't make any money by simplifying things for people.

https://www.aia.org/articles/70411-inte ... w-titles-f
https://www.ncarb.org/sites/default/fil ... nTitle.pdf
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Re: Purgatory after completing final exam

Postby Zanno » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:02 pm

Good suggestion, nickedemus.

After waiting 30 days, NCARB finally sent me an email (I pestered them this morning), to say they had reviewed my record. Only they sent it to the wrong state. :(
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Re: Purgatory after completing final exam

Postby rwwon » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:40 am

Would be absurd to ask for two offers and incorporate that into your contract? One offer for where you are at, and one that will kick in when you finally get licensed?
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