5.0 is NOT like real world architecture

Re: 5.0 is NOT like real world architecture

Postby nickedemus » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:26 am

vrcat25 wrote:
vrcat25 wrote:I think you're missing the point. Here's the question i propose to you and rwwon since you have admitted that some of the questions are bad, ambiguous and poorly written. "Is there any way to provide useful feedback to NCARB so that they may take a closer look at some questions that may be bad?


And STILL no answer, LOL! I read your response and i guess your answer is no?


That question is your problem to solve. It's not my battle. I'm done with my exams.
nickedemus
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:43 am

Re: 5.0 is NOT like real world architecture

Postby vrcat25 » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:55 am

nickedemus wrote:
vrcat25 wrote:
vrcat25 wrote:I think you're missing the point. Here's the question i propose to you and rwwon since you have admitted that some of the questions are bad, ambiguous and poorly written. "Is there any way to provide useful feedback to NCARB so that they may take a closer look at some questions that may be bad?


And STILL no answer, LOL! I read your response and i guess your answer is no?


That question is your problem to solve. It's not my battle. I'm done with my exams.


Yeah, i figured that would be your response. Once i'm done with these tests I'll probably stop caring about how bad these tests are. Sometimes i wonder if you and/or rwwon have written some of these questions since you have spent so much time defending them. :lol:

I'm just trying to find out if there's a way to take a closer look at some of the "BEST guess" questions and see if the success rate is even 20%, since 5.0 is relatively new. I have a strong reason to believe that a large portion are nearly impossible and missing information. As for the vetting process, all i've seen is a poor excuse for a process where questions are "within the range"... You are probably right and i'm just wasting my time trying to improve a test that i find to be almost entirely subjective and ambiguous and nowhere near reflecting any kind of level of expertise towards architecture. I've seen arguments both way and i'm obviously on the side that believes that these tests are very poorly written and lack the quality control that should be expected for a regulatory test. Nor do they prepare a licensed architect to the real world. I'm sorry if that takes away from what you believe is a legitimate testing process. That's just the way many people feel. I do agree with one thing though. I'm probably wasting my time and nothing will ever be done to look at feedback and the test will probably never improve due to lack of quality control and a system that encourages or even considers feedback. Passing this tests prove nothing. They are a complete joke and I have no more respect for somebody who passes them the first time nor any less respect for somebody who has to take PPP 6 or more times.... Speaking of PPP, even though i passed it, it's still a joke of a test with way too many "best guess", "pick 3-4" and many many other questions that made it RIDICULOUS. Unfortunately, NCARB has managed to create tests in 5.0 that are even worse. To NCARB, you and rwwon, this test is PERFECT and the problem is with the majority of all the test takers... :roll:

You are probably right about one thing...I'm probably just wasting my time since the people that could change things simply don't care. I have a feeling that the tests are made this way in order for NCARB to make more money...
vrcat25
 
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:19 am

Re: 5.0 is NOT like real world architecture

Postby sbyrktct » Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:28 am

vrcat25 wrote:
vrcat25 wrote:I think you're missing the point. Here's the question i propose to you and rwwon since you have admitted that some of the questions are bad, ambiguous and poorly written. "Is there any way to provide useful feedback to NCARB so that they may take a closer look at some questions that may be bad?


And STILL no answer, LOL! I read your response and i guess your answer is no?


You are wasting your time. NCARB does not care about your feedback.
User avatar
sbyrktct
 
Posts: 1891
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 9:35 am
Location: http://arehelp.webs.com/

Re: 5.0 is NOT like real world architecture

Postby rwwon » Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:33 am

sbyrktct wrote: You are wasting your time. NCARB does not care about your feedback.


Sbyrktct - What are you talking about? I'm almost certain if these guys told NCARB that their exams were riddled with bogus question, errors and mistakes, NCARB would listen and change their ways because NCARB is obviously in the wrong here.
User avatar
rwwon
 
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:26 pm

Re: 5.0 is NOT like real world architecture

Postby vrcat25 » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:13 am

rwwon wrote:
Sbyrktct - What are you talking about? I'm almost certain if these guys told NCARB that their exams were riddled with bogus question, errors and mistakes, NCARB would listen and change their ways because NCARB is obviously in the wrong here.


I realize your trying to be sarcastic, but there's more truth in this statement than you realize... I know it's a BIG pill to swallow and you may think that if you were to admit the ARE test is crap that this would be to admit that your license is illegitimate, but i wouldn't look at it this way. Don't you want 5.0 to have better quality control than 4.0 had? Almost everybody will admit that the vignette's a disaster and impractical and some if not most of the MC questions are bad. Even you admitted that. What's your big hang up on working towards creating a more objective test?? It's almost as if you want people to fail and go thru this ridiculous process of having to retake PPP 20 times. I've talked to some people that I'm 100 percent sure they are better designers, more intelligent, more common sense, etc. than some of the people that pass these tests the very first time. I'm not saying that your smarter if you don't pass, but you definitely are no smarter than if you do. There's zero correlation with intelligence and knowledge of architecture. I'm sorry if you're unable to see the pattern, but i'm reminded every time i get my hopes up, but sit down in front of the computer and realize how ridiculous the questions are. I could study for 6 months straight and there still would be questions that are impossible to study for and i'm left trying to figure out what some tool thinks is "best". I promise you that even after i pass the last 2, i'll have this belief until a better system is implemented.

rwwon wrote:
sbyrktct wrote: You are wasting your time. NCARB does not care about your feedback.


thanks for your response sbyrktct. That's the impression i got when i talked to the operator and she basically insulted me and said that I don't even live in a state where the board will consider feedback. It's pretty clear that some of the questions are made to be impossible for a reason. i guess i'm just naive for thinking that NCARB would want to have a fair test...
Last edited by vrcat25 on Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
vrcat25
 
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:19 am

Re: 5.0 is NOT like real world architecture

Postby rwwon » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:18 am

vrcat25 wrote:I think you're missing the point. Here's the question i propose to you and rwwon since you have admitted that some of the questions are bad, ambiguous and poorly written. "Is there any way to provide useful feedback to NCARB so that they may take a closer look at some questions that may be bad?


If you honestly find a specific question that is poorly worded, remember it, write it down and call NCARB privately but directly to discuss the question. I think that's your best option. If you go around shouting general accusations, you will get general answers and not be taken seriously, especially since you aren't the first person to complain about the exams are NCARB.

The question is - would you rather spend time fighting that battle, or admit defeat and just keep studying?

The former sounds fun and empowering - us against man! And the latter requires a swallowing of pride and going back to studying.

We all want to be revolutionists and change the world for better, I just think there are better causes out there than NCARB's ARE's lol.
User avatar
rwwon
 
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:26 pm

Re: 5.0 is NOT like real world architecture

Postby vrcat25 » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:26 am

rwwon wrote:
vrcat25 wrote:I think you're missing the point. Here's the question i propose to you and rwwon since you have admitted that some of the questions are bad, ambiguous and poorly written. "Is there any way to provide useful feedback to NCARB so that they may take a closer look at some questions that may be bad?


If you honestly find a specific question that is poorly worded, remember it, write it down and call NCARB privately but directly to discuss the question. I think that's your best option. If you go around shouting general accusations, you will get general answers and not be taken seriously, especially since you aren't the first person to complain about the exams are NCARB.

The question is - would you rather spend time fighting that battle, or admit defeat and just keep studying?

The former sounds fun and empowering - us against man! And the latter requires a swallowing of pride and going back to studying.

We all want to be revolutionists and change the world for better, I just think there are better causes out there than NCARB's ARE's lol.


Don't get me wrong rwwon...I'll never quit studying. I've been studying ever since i took the test and have a list of over 50 BS questions. I sent them in, but have only gotten an auto response...For me and others, there's no better cause than trying to improve upon these tests. I think it's especially important since 5.0 is less than a year old and the pass rates haven't been released yet. I just have zero confidence in the vetting process and statistics don't lie. I think what's happening is the easier questions are getting cut and the more subjective best guess questions are what's left...
vrcat25
 
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:19 am

Re: 5.0 is NOT like real world architecture

Postby rwwon » Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:18 pm

vrcat25 wrote:have a list of over 50 BS questions. I sent them in, but have only gotten an auto response...


So you sent a list of 50 questions (paraphrased I assume, unless you have a photographic memory of what is on your exams) you deemed to be bad, to NCARB?
User avatar
rwwon
 
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:26 pm

Re: 5.0 is NOT like real world architecture

Postby sbyrktct » Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:20 pm

vrcat25 wrote:For me and others, there's no better cause than trying to improve upon these tests.


It's always been a flawed test... it will always be a flawed test. 4.0 was their attempt to improve the test... so was 5.0... notice a pattern?

Your job is to sift through the crap, figure out what NCARB wants, give it to them, then move on with your life.
User avatar
sbyrktct
 
Posts: 1891
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 9:35 am
Location: http://arehelp.webs.com/

Re: 5.0 is NOT like real world architecture

Postby rwwon » Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:22 pm

I vote you get a job with NCARB - you are obviously passionate about getting correct information out there and improving testing information, where as most people would do what sbyrktct did.
User avatar
rwwon
 
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:26 pm

Re: 5.0 is NOT like real world architecture

Postby vrcat25 » Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:37 pm

rwwon wrote:I vote you get a job with NCARB


I knew you worked there! Why did you say that, are you hiring rwwon?? :lol:
vrcat25
 
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:19 am

Re: 5.0 is NOT like real world architecture

Postby vrcat25 » Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:42 pm

sbyrktct wrote:
vrcat25 wrote:For me and others, there's no better cause than trying to improve upon these tests.


It's always been a flawed test... it will always be a flawed test. 4.0 was their attempt to improve the test... so was 5.0... notice a pattern?

Your job is to sift through the crap, figure out what NCARB wants, give it to them, then move on with your life.


Sifting as we speak, but there's a BUNCH of crap. I can't wait to move on! 2 months is a bunch of down time in between these tests. At first, i studied the whole time, but i've come to figure out that the questions they ask are impossible to study for so i just waste my time reading and re-reading all these sources and then a bunch of WTF questions come up...Thanks for the advise though sbyrktct.
vrcat25
 
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:19 am

Re: 5.0 is NOT like real world architecture

Postby rwwon » Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:49 pm

NCARB should compensate me - especially their customer service portion. I'm sitting her telling people NCARBs tests are adequate enough and to focus on studying more and taking more exams instead of challenging them lol. I just personally never felt there was enough there to spend my time trying to change it, but if these exams are beating you up, I can understand the drive for wanting more change.
User avatar
rwwon
 
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:26 pm

Re: 5.0 is NOT like real world architecture

Postby nickedemus » Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:46 pm

vrcat25 wrote:I've been studying ever since i took the test and have a list of over 50 BS questions. I sent them in, but have only gotten an auto response...For me and others, there's no better cause than trying to improve upon these tests.


Why don't you try writing to a specific person, rather than a general mailbox?

Here is a list of NCARB's Board of Directors:

https://www.ncarb.org/about/board-directors
nickedemus
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:43 am

Re: 5.0 is NOT like real world architecture

Postby kerzzo » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:36 pm

I think that when the moment comes and we all stop pointing out the flaws in the tests(this will never end) we will not get a PASS in all the exams. I think we need to digest the ARE and that NCARB will not be perfect, and that's the day things will go right.
i complained about the 4.0 so much, but the moment I stopped complaining, I passed and then transitioned. yes, the 5.0 is very difficult in the sense of the ambiguous questions and also the timing, yet it is better than 4.0 at least in the platform is set up on.
I think you will pass as we all will. if there is a FAIl, it is best to learn from it and continue--just don't stop studying in those 60 days you have until the next one...take another test...
frustration will not help.....i dislike checking the score...because no one ever leaves that test center knowing they passed. Also, there are questions that don't count towards the score...if for some lucky reasons you didn't answer those correctly, there chances of passing are greater. it's a lottery, too.
good luck with it all!
kerzzo
 
Posts: 131
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:11 am

Re: 5.0 is NOT like real world architecture

Postby vrcat25 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:17 pm

kerzzo wrote:I think that when the moment comes and we all stop pointing out the flaws in the tests(this will never end) we will not get a PASS in all the exams. I think we need to digest the ARE and that NCARB will not be perfect, and that's the day things will go right.
i complained about the 4.0 so much, but the moment I stopped complaining, I passed and then transitioned. yes, the 5.0 is very difficult in the sense of the ambiguous questions and also the timing, yet it is better than 4.0 at least in the platform is set up on.
I think you will pass as we all will. if there is a FAIl, it is best to learn from it and continue--just don't stop studying in those 60 days you have until the next one...take another test...
frustration will not help.....i dislike checking the score...because no one ever leaves that test center knowing they passed. Also, there are questions that don't count towards the score...if for some lucky reasons you didn't answer those correctly, there chances of passing are greater. it's a lottery, too.
good luck with it all!


The fact is, NCARB could less about whether these tests are fair or not. Have you even taken any of the 5.0 tests yet kerzzo?? I had an optimistic outlook too until I took both tests. I'll keep taking these tests until I pass them but I'll never think that 5.0 is "better" than 4.0. You might want to save that view until you actually have taken a test in 5.0...I think you are being a little overly optimistic and presumptuous if you haven't even taken a test in 5.0 yet...if you need a heads up and some help, look at my previous threads and others who have taken 5.0 tests have to say...for example, there was very little structures and much or "best guess" type word problems. I wish you the best of luck though. You sure need it with these tests and it is like the lottery. I think it should be based on more tangible subject matter though .
vrcat25
 
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:19 am

Previous

Return to GENERAL DISCUSSION

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Deborahfup, eqiufatiluh, ibaxosemat, obvgecigadaca, oxuacuzufo, suwupafcodcik, udwehov, uvcisojuboci, uzodequl and 43 guests

cron