Responsibility after receiving License

[mimi]

Coach, I was wondering if you could share some thoughts about this. I am an employee at a small Architectural Firm. I have been asked to do proposed plans for a deck violation. The proposed plans that the principal of the firm wants me to do are in no way are close to the IRC code requirements, which I told him, and he still wants me to do his proposed plan. As a now Registered Architect, I believe I am responsible to meet a standard of care in all of my drawings . He will be signing and sealing the drawings. Do you have any suggestions about this situation?

[Coach]

I don't have nearly enough information to respond.

[mimi]

My question is that if I am drawing a plan that I know is incorrect for my employer, can I be held responsible because I have a license?
Even if I am not the person signing and sealing the plan, can I be held responsible?

[Coach]

I know that's your concern. I was just wondering if you're missing something.

As for liability, that's a question for your state board.

[mimi]

Thank you.

[gbalaka]

Coach, I was wondering if you could share some thoughts about this. I am an employee at a small Architectural Firm. I have been asked to do proposed plans for a deck violation. The proposed plans that the principal of the firm wants me to do are in no way are close to the IRC code requirements, which I told him, and he still wants me to do his proposed plan. As a now Registered Architect, I believe I am responsible to meet a standard of care in all of my drawings . He will be signing and sealing the drawings. Do you have any suggestions about this situation?

Mimi, i think you answered your own question. It sounds that in this particular case, he's the one with the responsible control over the drawings as he'll be putting his stamp on the drawings. Doesn't sound like he's forcing you to stamp the drawings as well. Tricky situation..... Maybe he's trying to get a variance or has some kind of an agreement with someone at the city? Who knows.......

I would personally only put my own stamp on drawings that I'm in responsible control over.

[corbismyhomeboy]

Sometimes, if you're very lucky, and you meet with a code official beforehand, you can explain to them why you're doing a certain thing and why you can't meet code, and they'll ok it anyway. But this isn't often, and you have to have an EXCELLENT reason as to why this is. It sounds like there is something your boss isn't telling you... maybe this is the case? We had a similar thing happen recently, but chose to redesign most of the project as an addendum instead of risk the code violations.

[vrcat25]

I understand your dilemma mimi. Even if you don't have a legal obligation, i would say you have a moral one. For example, let's say the code requires 4" pickets since the deck is elevated over 30" and your boss tells you to space them with more and a baby slips thru, falls and gets injured or even worse, DIES. You may not be "legally" held responsible, but you would still be upset right? I'd have a sit down with my boss and tell him that i don't feel comfortable with breaking the code for his sake and yours. I mean, what is so fabulous about his design where he can't compromise and make the necessary adjustments to bring it into compliance?? Please, tell more because i'd love to know what his hang up is... I'm sorry, but he's a real ass for doing that. DEFINITELY don't stamp it and don't ever forget how wrong this is of him. Don't ever forget that there are people like him that are willing to sacrifice the health, safety and welfare of the people by breaking the codes which are in place to protect them and don't ever become like him. I'd start looking for a new employer FAST!

[vrcat25]

Sometimes, if you're very lucky, and you meet with a code official beforehand, you can explain to them why you're doing a certain thing and why you can't meet code, and they'll ok it anyway. But this isn't often, and you have to have an EXCELLENT reason as to why this is. It sounds like there is something your boss isn't telling you... maybe this is the case? We had a similar thing happen recently, but chose to redesign most of the project as an addendum instead of risk the code violations.

That's a good point. I was just thinking how maybe said boss is going to "backfill as req'd so deck is elevated 30" or less " It's funny what bosses will fail to tell you in order to steal the lime light, if for no other reason or lack thereof

[nickedemus]

We had a similar thing happen recently, but chose to redesign most of the project as an addendum instead of risk the code violations.

Just so I understand, do you mean you had to redesign after the project had been put to bid (I'm assuming design-bid-build)?

[corbismyhomeboy]

Nickedemus, yes, we had to make changes as an addendum during the bidding period. I was brought onto a project at 95% CDs so another PA could step off. I noticed a bunch of ADA and IBC code violations that the current PA never noticed. By the time I could talk to my PM to see if he was aware, talk to a partner, research/write up a code report, and I was given the go ahead to make changes, we were a few days from the final CD deadline. On top of that, there was a very ugly snow storm that closed our office, which meant losing another day. And yes, this whole episode gave me stomach ulcers from the stress...!

Even though I wouldn't be personally stamping this project, the owner of the firm IS and like vrcat pointed out, how absolutely terrible would you feel if something really did happen because you never spoke up?! If it was an aesthetic issue, I would've shut my trap, but HSW isn't something to test the limits on in my opinion.

[mimi]

Guys, I am very touched by your responses. I have concluded for myself that it is an ethical, life safety issue.
I cannot submit plans that don't comply, whether I am the signer or not.
Thanks for all of your feedback.
Best to everyone,
Miriam

[hnQ_9999]

I think you take it a bit too serious.
1. You and your boss are both professional. There is a common ground to communicate openly about bd codes.
2. Even if you draw things as yr boss said, then there is SE, AHJ planchecker, then GC, then inspector...
3. Lastly, if all things are done without nobody notices of such violation, you can always later call/write to AHJ to inform.

My personal similar story: "SE placed 4 in-wall posts in a residential remodel job.
Boss asked me to take one out. I refused. Boss yelled "I don't give the f*** about that post". I walked.
Now with more time to reflect, I think I was right to walk away from a non-pro, but the the tech issue was not that serious,
bec as I said in (2).