Cut Scores

Cut Scores

Postby Barry » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:37 am

Scores are now being processed for PPD. We should expect results by mid-February.
https://are5community.ncarb.org/hc/en-u ... ons-Update
Barry
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:22 pm

Re: Cut Scores

Postby dnlcorte » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:05 am

Great news. Just tested yesterday so I was anxious to know when they were going to finally start posting scores. Looks like I wont have to worry about it for a month or so!
dnlcorte
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:10 pm

Re: Cut Scores

Postby tmston2 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:59 pm

Good News
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
tmston2
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:41 pm

Re: Cut Scores

Postby ayoitsjoco » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:09 pm

tmston2 wrote:Good News


Do we know what the definition of "early tester" is for sure at this point? testing pre 1/31? first 600 testers? something else? since it is now 1/31 and also the number on the testers on the blog has reached ":D" level for both PDD and PPD

Edit: I found the community posts. Does everyone here just stalk the ARE website everyday? Geez everyone hears about the info so fast... I get my NCARB info from here
ayoitsjoco
 
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:42 pm

Re: Cut Scores

Postby cmanley3 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:03 am

Does anyone know how being an Early Tester (one of the first 600) will affect the grading? Will it be easier to pass if you are in this group of people or inconsequential? I was one of the first 600 for PPD and PDD and just want to keep hoping that being part of the "curve" will better my chances! ;)
cmanley3
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:49 am

Re: Cut Scores

Postby VanillaBuns » Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:20 am

Hey cmanley, check out the blog post here:
http://archinect.com/arch-ellipsis/are-5-0-cut-scores

This does a decent job of explaining the process of the "cut score." Think of the process as a chance for adjustment of the pre-determined difficulty of each question. Or rather, a way to weed out poorly written questions.
VanillaBuns
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:58 am

Re: Cut Scores

Postby vrcat25 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:05 pm

cmanley3 wrote:Does anyone know how being an Early Tester (one of the first 600) will affect the grading? Will it be easier to pass if you are in this group of people or inconsequential? I was one of the first 600 for PPD and PDD and just want to keep hoping that being part of the "curve" will better my chances! ;)


I don't think NCARB even knows the answer to that question, but I'm going to venture to say that it will be easier. They are giving away gift cards, free retakes and other incentives. I'm pretty sure that the pass rates will even be higher. They are acting like this new 5.0 is the second coming of christ so i'm sure they will make it easier for you to pass and more appealing to others who are on the fence with switching from 4.0 to 5.0.
vrcat25
 
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:19 am

Re: Cut Scores

Postby bwenzel » Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:49 pm

Received an email stating that they would be out mid-morning on 2/28.
bwenzel
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: Cut Scores

Postby seaccs » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:21 pm

VanillaBuns wrote:Hey cmanley, check out the blog post here:
http://archinect.com/arch-ellipsis/are-5-0-cut-scores

This does a decent job of explaining the process of the "cut score." Think of the process as a chance for adjustment of the pre-determined difficulty of each question. Or rather, a way to weed out poorly written questions.


^ +1

The cut score is not a curve. Whether you are part of the first 600 or not, the cut score will be the same for everyone.

In theory, the test is just as difficult to pass whether you are the first person to take it or the last. In reality, the more people to have taken the test the easier it ends up being to pass it. This isn't because the cut score changes though, or the test somehow gets easier. It is because more information gets out about what to expect on the test. If you know more about what to expect, you can do a better job studying for it and this results in better passing rates.
seaccs
 
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:13 pm

Re: Cut Scores

Postby vrcat25 » Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:19 am

seaccs wrote:The cut score is not a curve. Whether you are part of the first 600 or not, the cut score will be the same for everyone.

In theory, the test is just as difficult to pass whether you are the first person to take it or the last. In reality, the more people to have taken the test the easier it ends up being to pass it. This isn't because the cut score changes though, or the test somehow gets easier. It is because more information gets out about what to expect on the test. If you know more about what to expect, you can do a better job studying for it and this results in better passing rates.


If this were REMOTELY true, than the pass score percentage rates for 4.0 would have increased and not decreased. -> http://www.ncarb.org/ARE/ARE-Pass-Rates/DivisionPR.aspx

As you can see, the ONLY divisions where that happened over the past 5 years was with SD and BDCS and it was negligible (64% compared to 62%). In fact, all of the other 5 divisions and particularly with PPP, people did more poorly in recent years. After taking and retaking PPP, i've found that the questions are way more difficult than they should have been to the point where some of them were pretty much impossible and described as WTF questions. In "theory", it's a novel idea that the tests are fair, but in reality, these tests are completely and utterly absurd and have nothing to do with real world architecture. I've looked at the 5.0 model enough to know that it's "drag and drop" and "case studies" are no more accurate a gauge of real world architecture than 4.0. Of course it will be more easy than 4.0 and the pass rates will be higher. Just wait and see. Give it a few years and they will consistently increase the obscurity and subjectivity of the questions and the pass rates will fall, just like how they have done with the majority of the divisions in 5.0. If you're going to transition, I'd do it now.
vrcat25
 
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:19 am

Re: Cut Scores

Postby ekelsey15 » Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:54 am

I'm not gonna act like I know anything about the cut scores or not because honestly I never cared. I'm only worried about a pass. That being said VRcat you may be correct but I think there may be one thing you didn't mention. I highly doubt they started 4.0 with 10,000 questions. As the test continued and the questions recycled eventually they would continue to get reused and known. So I would imagine that they are continuously coming up with new questions. And doubt they approved questions that were easier. I wouldn't have. So I would imagine the tests did in fact get harder. But I would also imagine that they cut scores would adjust as required.
ekelsey15
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:23 am

Re: Cut Scores

Postby vrcat25 » Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:37 am

ekelsey15 wrote:I'm not gonna act like I know anything about the cut scores or not because honestly I never cared. I'm only worried about a pass. That being said VRcat you may be correct but I think there may be one thing you didn't mention. I highly doubt they started 4.0 with 10,000 questions. As the test continued and the questions recycled eventually they would continue to get reused and known. So I would imagine that they are continuously coming up with new questions. And doubt they approved questions that were easier. I wouldn't have. So I would imagine the tests did in fact get harder. But I would also imagine that they cut scores would adjust as required.


Have you looked at the last 5 years of pass rates for 4.0? -> http://www.ncarb.org/ARE/ARE-Pass-Rates/DivisionPR.aspx

It's not a matter of me being right or wrong. It's obvious that the tests have gotten harder over the past 5 years and NCARB needs to fix that. Besides the high rate of fails the vignette's, the MC have also gotten harder for PPP and CDS. Just look at the pass rate for PPP and CDS in 2016! Barely half of the people passed and who knows how many of those were retakes. It's pretty safe to say that LESS THAN HALF pass on their first try. These are NCARB's pass rates and they have nothing to do with me being "right". The pass rates speak for themselves... Maybe if NCARB allowed feedback on some of the MC questions, they could cross reference the complaints and see that almost nobody will be able to answer some of the questions correctly. I guess we have to take their word for it and hope that those are just "trial questions". It's a terrible system and I don't count on 5.0 being any more fair than 4.0. I do think the pass rates will probably be higher for the first couple of years. Only time will tell. Good luck!
vrcat25
 
Posts: 1017
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:19 am

Re: Cut Scores

Postby seaccs » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:20 pm

vrcat25, you're making a false assumption that the pass rates are an accurate reflection of the difficulty of the exam; they aren't. All the pass rates show is how many people took and passed the exam. The cut score is set up so that whether you have a 'difficult' exam or an 'easy' one, a competent candidate will pass the exam and an incompetent candidate will not. Passing an exam is merely a reflection of that particular candidates competency determined through the cut score process. A difficult exam or an easy exam would result in statistically the same pass rates as long as the cut score is consistent.

Look at the pass rates before 2011 for 4.0 and you'll see that they were about equal (sometimes lower) in the first years 4.0 was offered as they were most recently in 2016. It wasn't that the exams suddenly got easier ... it was that candidates were better informed of what to expect and were better prepared. You'll also see that many ARE 3.1 division pass rates experienced a decline in the years before it was phased out, most likely due to similar reasons you're seeing it now with 4.0 divisions. http://web.archive.org/web/20130312211751/http://www.ncarb.org/ARE/ARE-Pass-Rates/DivisionPR.aspx

A drop in recent years for any particular division's pass rate doesn't reflect that the exam is harder, it merely represents that the candidates aren't as competent as they once were, or that they aren't preparing as well as they once were. Perhaps candidates have been trying to rush to get the exams done before 5.0 came out and consequently didn't do so well in 2016. Perhaps it is due to the fact that many more candidates are taking the exams before finishing IDP/AXP, taking the exam sooner and they don't have the experience that candidates used to have by waiting to take the exam. NCARB has outlined many reasons why they are seeing a decline in pass rates in 2016's NCARB By the Numbers report as well; http://nbtn.ncarb.org/examination.
seaccs
 
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:13 pm

Re: Cut Scores

Postby cmanley3 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:00 am

I'm refreshing the NCARB site every 10 mins... Where are the scores!?
cmanley3
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:49 am

Re: Cut Scores

Postby cloudyy » Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:19 am

cmanley3 wrote:I'm refreshing the NCARB site every 10 mins... Where are the scores!?


Gah!!!! Why am I not surprised though...
cloudyy
 

Re: Cut Scores

Postby cmanley3 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:44 am

Just got my results and I passed! Already took the PDD, and those results wont be in until end of March.

Honestly, I thought PPD was relatively easy. It was a mixture of 4.0 SPD/ 4.0 CDS / 4.0 PPP with a little Structures and Systems mixed in. If you took the prerequisite 4.0 exams and actually INTERNALIZED the information (plus have experience in the field to back up your studies) you will do fine. I skimmed the Ballast Structures in preparation for PPD, as well as relied on my having studied and almost passed 4.0 Systems twice (stupid vignette errors caused failure).

The culmination of passing the prerequisite 4.0 exams for 5.0 credit, as well as reading through (no notes) the structural chapters in Ballast and knowing enough about the 4.0 Systems exam to pass it made this Project Planning and Design passable.

Granted... it was a toss up whether I was going to pass or fail, as all ARE are due to some wacky MC questions.


pass.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
cmanley3
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:49 am

Re: Cut Scores

Postby cloudyy » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:46 am

Bad news for me...fail :(

I did think it wasn't too hard....but I felt the same about PPP and failed the first time. Oh well, at least I got a shot at much cheaper price plus a free retake. I'm already anticipating a fail on PDD. Will be retaking this one ASAP.
cloudyy
 

Re: Cut Scores

Postby volksnick » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:50 am

I passed. I hate to admit it, but when I saw the free retest and the $100 gift card, I signed up without studying, trying to squeeze it in before the 31st. I figured it was a freebee and I'd throw it at the wall to see if it would stick. One more to go!
volksnick
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:23 pm

Re: Cut Scores

Postby dnlcorte » Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:15 pm

I studied long and hard on PPD and did pass. I didn't find PPD as "easy" as CDS, PPP, or SPD though. I felt like I was blindsided on the exam and what it was REALLY on. I was quite surprised on my results. As for CDS, PPP, and SPD, none of those were easy either but we have a good base on what is on the exam due to this forum so I knew what I was getting into.

I also just took PDD and felt that exam was another extension to PPD and was easier than PPD due to extra study time.

I definitely recommend people read over Changs Building Construction Illustrated and Building Code Illustrated - both were great resources for PPD and PDD.
dnlcorte
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:10 pm


Return to PPD - Project Planning & Design

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 77 guests

cron