accessible stairs

[vrcat25]

When are stairs considered to be an accessible means of egress. One of the code requirements says thst stairs must be 48" between handrails. I don't understand why stairs would ever be an accessible route since a person in a wheelchair can't use them. Can somebody explain when this applies?

[sb84]

Accessibility does NOT just deal with wheelchair access. That is one form of disability. You also have disabilities that are mobility disabilities that don't require wheelchairs, sight disabilities, hearing disabilitie, etc.

[vrcat25]

Accessibility does NOT just deal with wheelchair access. That is one form of disability. You also have disabilities that are mobility disabilities that don't require wheelchairs, sight disabilities, hearing disabilitie, etc.

I understand that but when is it required to be an accessible route since there is usually going to be an elevator or ramp?

[fliparch]

An elevator cannot be used as a means of egress and a ramp will not always be available. Think high rise building. They will shut down the elevators to ground level (I think - please confirm) and there is no ramp on the 40th floor to ground level. This is when you will need "areas of refuge" for wheelchairs to park and be rescued.

Accessibility does NOT just deal with wheelchair access. That is one form of disability. You also have disabilities that are mobility disabilities that don't require wheelchairs, sight disabilities, hearing disabilitie, etc.

I understand that but when is it required to be an accessible route since there is usually going to be an elevator or ramp?

[vrcat25]

That makes sense for any building with an elevator, but I can't think of any other circumstance where stairs would need to be accessible since only ground floors or floors wirh elevators are required to be accessible. Thanks for shedding some light on this question fliparch!

At first I thought that maybe I was asking an obvious question but a senior licensed architect at my firm was also confused as to when stairs would need to be accessible and gave me a blank stair when I asked him this

[corbismyhomeboy]

Just to follow up on fliparch's elevator comment, the elevators are normally programmed to go to a predetermined floor (generally ground floor) and open their doors to let out any passengers where they can directly access outside without using additional egress stairs. Also this lets firemen 1) know no one is stuck in the elevator during the fire, 2) use the elevator if they wish to access any floor to put out the fire and 3) to search for anyone missing. This is why it can't be used as a part of the egress path.

[Raja]

Where are you reading that only ground floors are required to be accessible?

Good overview from ICC...
https://www.iccsafe.org/safety/Document ... sBroch.pdf

[vrcat25]

Thanks for the question and I can see how that could be taken out of context Raja. At our firm we have worked on quite a few apartment complexes and building where the requirement is that all ground floor units must be fair housing unless its a townhouse or single family. If the building is only 2,3 and 4 stories it is not required to have an elevator unless you place your acessible units on a non ground floor. Obviously, you would want to place your acessible units on the ground floor if you can fulfill the 2% requirement that way. Consequently, if you were to place the acessible units on upper non ground floors, you would need an elevator so that somebody in a wheel chair could get up to it and this would be an extra and unwanted cost to the owner.

My question is, for a multifamily housing building with all the acessible units on the ground floor, would there ever be an instance where you would need the stairs to be accessible? I could see that if you had an accessible unit upstairs for seeing or hearing impairment, but most of the time we would have these on the ground floor as well.

Basically, we always put an elevator in as required or we put all of the accessible units on the ground floor. I'm trying to figure out for housing when you would ever need stairs to be on accessible route if you have the accessible units on the ground floor and don't have an elevator. Clear as mud?

[Raja]

Thanks for the question and I can see how that could be taken out of context Raja. At our firm we have worked on quite a few apartment complexes and building where the requirement is that all ground floor units must be fair housing unless its a townhouse or single family. If the building is only 2,3 and 4 stories it is not required to have an elevator unless you place your acessible units on a non ground floor. Obviously, you would want to place your acessible units on the ground floor if you can fulfill the 2% requirement that way. Consequently, if you were to place the acessible units on upper non ground floors, you would need an elevator so that somebody in a wheel chair could get up to it and this would be an extra and unwanted cost to the owner.

My question is, for a multifamily housing building with all the acessible units on the ground floor, would there ever be an instance where you would need the stairs to be accessible? I could see that if you had an accessible unit upstairs for seeing or hearing impairment, but most of the time we would have these on the ground floor as well.

Basically, we always put an elevator in as required or we put all of the accessible units on the ground floor. I'm trying to figure out for housing when you would ever need stairs to be on accessible route if you have the accessible units on the ground floor and don't have an elevator. Clear as mud?

Yes vrcat25 that makes total sense and it's a good question. I think that if there is a corridor, elevator/ stairs to the non-GF units, those "public" areas need to be accessible for a safe way out. Like what if my blind friend is visiting me on the 3rd floor and there's a fire? I'm not owner of building, just my unit, or I'm renting a unit. Public must be protected, so we have to provide accessible means of egress for general public to get out from our individual units through the building safely to the street.

[vrcat25]

Yes vrcat25 that makes total sense and it's a good question. I think that if there is a corridor, elevator/ stairs to the non-GF units, those "public" areas need to be accessible for a safe way out. Like what if my blind friend is visiting me on the 3rd floor and there's a fire? I'm not owner of building, just my unit, or I'm renting a unit. Public must be protected, so we have to provide accessible means of egress for general public to get out from our individual units through the building safely to the street.

EXACTLY Raja! When is it "required to make the steps accessible. I think it is only required if there is an accessible unit on the upper floor. Sure it would be nice to accommodate a visitor, but I don't think it's required. Let's say that it was a dormitory and there were no accessible units on the upper floors, but there is a study room or laundry room. I think that you would be required to have the stairs and those rooms to be accessible. On the other hand, if they had access to the same rooms on the ground floor, maybe their civil rights would not be infringed upon? I don't think that the codes or laws would require us to make provisions for visitors though, but I could be wrong. I appreciate your insight on this Raja! I work with an architect who has been licensed and designing buildings for over 30 years and asked him and he is somewhat confused on this topic as well. We always play it safe and just make the stairs at 48" clear.